Wolstat: Raptors' Recent Play Has Been 'Huge Encouragement' To Ujiri But... - Page 6

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Old 01-04-2014, 07:22 PM   #101 (permalink)
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SMH... what the fuck is wrong with you.
I see a team that could lose its best player this summer, and I think ahead. If that's wrong I don't wanna be right.

Unlike some people here who only "enjoy the moment". Luckily that's not Masai's job, he has to think ahead, and if he does he will make the right choice for this team.
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:24 PM   #102 (permalink)
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But Dallas had recently won a championship when they tried to sign those guys, right? By the logic of some posters here, their winning culture should have guaranteed them two max contract players.
I still don't even know what you're talking about. It's like you hate the idea of sports in general. Their are so many great upsets in sports, so many great championship stories. It's really odd to argue against the concept that establishing a culture of being excellent, of working hard, and improving can't result in a good ending.

It's like you're cheering for Ivan Drago or Pete Sampras
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:28 PM   #103 (permalink)
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I see a team that could lose its best player this summer, and I think ahead. If that's wrong I don't wanna be right.

Unlike some people here who only "enjoy the moment". Luckily that's not Masai's job, he has to think ahead, and if he does he will make the right choice for this team.
He'll make the right choice for the team. Does he need to call you to be sure you're happy with his choice, or have you told him the job is his and just go do it? Or is Tim Lieweke's approval enough for him to proceed?
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:33 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
I see a team that could lose its best player this summer, and I think ahead. If that's wrong I don't wanna be right.

Unlike some people here who only "enjoy the moment". Luckily that's not Masai's job, he has to think ahead, and if he does he will make the right choice for this team.
Who says he's not thinking ahead right now?
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:43 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Yes... because I believe it to be true.

Trading away assets blindly without looking for the best deal, while hoping to suck so that you can land a top pick and suddenly make everything all better IS the essence of lazy GM'ing.
I love how you dropped 'blindly' in there like its real and like it is what everyone is obviously saying.

So, by your logic, it was the right move to keep cb4 for that last season?
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:49 PM   #106 (permalink)
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I love how you dropped 'blindly' in there like its real and like it is what everyone is obviously saying.

So, by your logic, it was the right move to keep cb4 for that last season?
Well pardon me then... perhaps you'd like to speak for "Team Tank" and clarify their position for me. All we've been hearing for WEEKS around here is how winning games does us no good... how we're going miss out on a sure-fire franchise player in one of the deepest drafts ever... how it's a mistake... "fool's gold" to want to win games right now.

Did I misconstrue something? Is that NOT what the pro-tankers are saying?

Just to be clear.... I've never advocated keeping Lowry at all costs. I fully understand the dilemma that Ujiri is in in that case and he SHOULDN'T let what happened with Bosh happen again with him. If he can't get Lowry to sign an extension then deal him..... but not until ALL options have been explored... and there's no way that they've all been explored 6 weeks before the trade deadline.
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:50 PM   #107 (permalink)
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I love how you dropped 'blindly' in there like its real and like it is what everyone is obviously saying.

So, by your logic, it was the right move to keep cb4 for that last season?
Since we should have traded Bosh in the summer when he didn't sign and NOT the deadline, how is it even possible to compare the value of keeping Lowry to keeping Bosh when Lowry would not have fetched even close at the start of the year and only now is playing closer to a star closer the deadline. If he doesn't bring a good return why would we trade him? And so far there hasn't been a good enough offer to pry him away.

I have no idea what offer everyone thinks is on the table, but they are over-estimating it so far.
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:55 PM   #108 (permalink)
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All I know is as much as many here including my self want Lowry to stay past the deadline. It isn't happening!

There is no way MU goes the same route as BC did with Bosh. Sign & trade? Ummm no!!!

Remember how BC was trying to up play trade exceptions??? Lol
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:58 PM   #109 (permalink)
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I still don't even know what you're talking about. It's like you hate the idea of sports in general. Their are so many great upsets in sports, so many great championship stories. It's really odd to argue against the concept that establishing a culture of being excellent, of working hard, and improving can't result in a good ending.

It's like you're cheering for Ivan Drago or Pete Sampras
So because I think about the long-term success of my favourite team, I'm not a sports fans? Ok.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:14 PM   #110 (permalink)
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SMH... what the fuck is wrong with you.
It's better just to ignore him. Think of him as the new Raptor123. Instead of having a crush on a player like Calderon, he has one for the idea that tanking will guarantee us a franchise player that will help us win a championship.

That must be it because every top 5 pick has at least won 1 championship so far in his mind.

Yep, Dwight, Melo, KD, Yao, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, LaMarcus Aldridge, Greg Oden, Derrick Rose, Blake Griffin, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, Chris Webber, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, Glenn Robinson, Jerry Stackhouse, Allen Iverson, and Vince Carter have all won championships because all were picked top 5 in their respective drafts and all of them were hyped as potential major franchise players.

What's that? They all didn't win a ring. What's that? Some of them never lived up to the hype and so called potential they supposed had in fucking college that didn't transition over to the NBA.

Geez, I thought all top picks one championships.

Now I'm done

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Old 01-04-2014, 08:19 PM   #111 (permalink)
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It's better just to ignore him. Think of him as the new Raptor123. Instead of having a crush on a player like Calderon, he has one for the idea that tanking will guarantee us a franchise player that will help us win a championship.

That must be it because every top 5 pick has at least won 1 championship so far in his mind.

Yep, Dwight, Melo, KD, Yao, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, LaMarcus Aldridge, Greg Oden, Derrick Rose, Blake Griffin, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, Chris Webber, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, Glenn Robinson, Jerry Stackhouse, Allen Iverson, and Vince Carter have all won championships because all were picked top 5 in their respective drafts and all of them were hyped as potential major franchise players.

What's that? They all didn't win a ring. What's that? Some of them never lived up to the hyped potential that they were given in fucking college.

Geez, I thought all top picks one championships.

Now I'm done

that list of players doesn't help with your antitank idea at all, ring or not those are almost all franchise players
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:46 PM   #112 (permalink)
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that list of players doesn't help with your antitank idea at all, ring or not those are almost all franchise players
The days of a "franchise player" are over.

Team ball wins games.

Obviously having a highly talented player on your team is useful, but if that player doesn't buy into the team mentality then he will hurt the team more than help...regardless of how good he is.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:52 PM   #113 (permalink)
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He ain't gonna trade Lowry or Demar away for some chicken scraps...he wants some juicy tender thighs and maybe some lean breast meat. The returns for Lowry won't lead to us being a bottom 5 team if he does trade him.
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:25 PM   #114 (permalink)
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It's better just to ignore him. Think of him as the new Raptor123. Instead of having a crush on a player like Calderon, he has one for the idea that tanking will guarantee us a franchise player that will help us win a championship.

That must be it because every top 5 pick has at least won 1 championship so far in his mind.

Yep, Dwight, Melo, KD, Yao, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, LaMarcus Aldridge, Greg Oden, Derrick Rose, Blake Griffin, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, Chris Webber, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, Glenn Robinson, Jerry Stackhouse, Allen Iverson, and Vince Carter have all won championships because all were picked top 5 in their respective drafts and all of them were hyped as potential major franchise players.

What's that? They all didn't win a ring. What's that? Some of them never lived up to the hype and so called potential they supposed had in fucking college that didn't transition over to the NBA.

Geez, I thought all top picks one championships.

Now I'm done
If you want me to break it down extra slow for you, NOBODY SAID ALL TOP 5 PICKS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. What was said was that all (except 1 or 2) teams that have won the NBA championship have an elite (top 15 or so if that's outta your vocabulary) player and that you are more likely to get that player in the top 5.

Here, I'll break it down even slower so you get it.
2013: Miami Heat - Lebron, elite, top 5
2012: Miami Heat - Lebron, elite, top 5
2011: Dallas Mavericks - Dirk, elite
2010: Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe, elite
2009: Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe, elite
2008: Boston Celtics - Garnett, elite, top 5
2007: Spurs - Duncan, elite, top 5
2006: Heat - Wade, elite, top 5
2005: Spurs - Duncan, elite, top 5
2004: Pistons - Bllups, not elite
2003: Spurs - Duncan, elite, top 5
2002: Lakers - Shaq, elite, top 5
2001: "
2000: "
1999: Spurs: Robinson/Duncan, elite, both top 5
1998: Bulls, Jordan, elite, top 5
1997: "
1996: "
I'd go further, but I think you catch the drift at this point. Since 1996, 1/18 championship teams have had an elite player, and 14/17 of them were top 5 picks. Do you now comprehend the argument? If not there's not much else I can do to explain it to you.

So yes, excuse me for not having a hardon for DeMar "literally the GOAT" DeRozan or Kyle "the greatest rebounding PG of all time" Lowry, but yeah, I prefer to have some of those all-time greats on your list leading our team over them.

I'd make a list of all the teams who haven't won a championship without a superstar, too, to entertain you, but it'd be too big. Just picture around half the teams in the league each season for the entire history of the league. But clearly, going with the flow is an impeccable strategy that never fails. Yeah, who wants a good chance at a top 15 player in the league when we could just continue the season and let Lowry expire at the end and revert back to a 7-11 team next year.

Go with the flow baby, no risks at all, ever. You're guaranteed a Jordan with the 20th pick and your winning culture makes you more irresistable than a victoria's secret model to those free agents.

Last edited by KoolAid; 01-04-2014 at 09:30 PM. Reason: to not get banned
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:32 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Well pardon me then... perhaps you'd like to speak for "Team Tank" and clarify their position for me. All we've been hearing for WEEKS around here is how winning games does us no good... how we're going miss out on a sure-fire franchise player in one of the deepest drafts ever... how it's a mistake... "fool's gold" to want to win games right now.

Did I misconstrue something? Is that NOT what the pro-tankers are saying?

Just to be clear.... I've never advocated keeping Lowry at all costs. I fully understand the dilemma that Ujiri is in in that case and he SHOULDN'T let what happened with Bosh happen again with him. If he can't get Lowry to sign an extension then deal him..... but not until ALL options have been explored... and there's no way that they've all been explored 6 weeks before the trade deadline.
My point is that dealing Lowry doesn't necessarily mean tank. Stop using the word tank and this will be a more meaningful conversation. Same goes for the other side with the automatic assumption of mediocrity.
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:34 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Since we should have traded Bosh in the summer when he didn't sign and NOT the deadline, how is it even possible to compare the value of keeping Lowry to keeping Bosh when Lowry would not have fetched even close at the start of the year and only now is playing closer to a star closer the deadline. If he doesn't bring a good return why would we trade him? And so far there hasn't been a good enough offer to pry him away.

I have no idea what offer everyone thinks is on the table, but they are over-estimating it so far.
They are comparable as expiring assets. Losing your best players for nothing is bad planning, almost every time.
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:39 PM   #117 (permalink)
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If you want me to break it down extra slow for you, NOBODY SAID ALL TOP 5 PICKS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. What was said was that all (except 1 or 2) teams that have won the NBA championship have an elite (top 15 or so if that's outta your vocabulary) player and that you are more likely to get that player in the top 5.

Here, I'll break it down even slower so you get it.
2013: Miami Heat - Lebron, elite, top 5
2012: Miami Heat - Lebron, elite, top 5
2011: Dallas Mavericks - Dirk, elite
2010: Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe, elite
2009: Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe, elite
2008: Boston Celtics - Garnett, elite, top 5
2007: Spurs - Duncan, elite, top 5
2006: Heat - Wade, elite, top 5
2005: Spurs - Duncan, elite, top 5
2004: Pistons - Bllups, not elite
2003: Spurs - Duncan, elite, top 5
2002: Lakers - Shaq, elite, top 5
2001: "
2000: "
1999: Spurs: Robinson/Duncan, elite, both top 5
1998: Bulls, Jordan, elite, top 5
1997: "
1996: "
I'd go further, but I think you catch the drift at this point. Since 1996, 1/18 championship teams have had an elite player, and 14/17 of them were top 5 picks. Do you now comprehend the argument? If not there's not much else I can do to explain it to you.

So yes, excuse me for not having a hardon for DeMar "literally the GOAT" DeRozan or Kyle "the greatest rebounding PG of all time" Lowry, but yeah, I prefer to have some of those all-time greats on your list leading our team over them.

I'd make a list of all the teams who haven't won a championship without a superstar, too, to entertain you, but it'd be too big. Just picture around half the teams in the league each season for the entire history of the league. But clearly, going with the flow is an impeccable strategy that never fails. Yeah, who wants a good chance at a top 15 player in the league when we could just continue the season and let Lowry expire at the end and revert back to a 7-11 team next year.

Go with the flow baby, no risks at all, ever. You're guaranteed a Jordan with the 20th pick and your winning culture makes you more irresistable than a victoria's secret model to those free agents.
Why did you edit out your comment about the post you were replying to as " the dumbest post you'd ever seen on the this forum"?
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:41 PM   #118 (permalink)
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My point is that dealing Lowry doesn't necessarily mean tank. Stop using the word tank and this will be a more meaningful conversation. Same goes for the other side with the automatic assumption of mediocrity.
Again... agreed. Not sure where you're getting that idea from but it's not from me.

What I DID say was that if we dealt DD and Amir (and perhaps JV)... THEN I could see how the idea of "tanking" could come into play. Because you'd be giving up on young assets. Dealing Lowry just seems to be an inevitable reality right now (unless he really has a change of heart and signs an extension)... but his departure wouldn't automatically make us a bottom-feeder.

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Old 01-04-2014, 09:41 PM   #119 (permalink)
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They are comparable as expiring assets. Losing your best players for nothing is bad planning, almost every time.
What do you think Lowry can actually get? Losing your best players for nothing isn't bad planning...it's the end of a contract.

It's Raptor fan paranoia - 'all our players really want to leave us so we better trade them before they do'.

Every team has expiring contracts, and only a small percentage is traded the year before.

He will only gets traded if;

A: We get a high probability of netting a high draft pick;
and/or
B: Ujiri senses that Lowry wants to play elsewhere.

I don't think A will happen and I don't think B is true.

Last edited by bjjs; 01-04-2014 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:47 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Why did you edit out your comment about the post you were replying to as " the dumbest post you'd ever seen on the this forum"?
I was being rude, so I took it out. I put a couple of mins into that post, didn't want to see it removed because I insulted him.

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