Wilson Chandler back from China, flies to Toronto - Page 28
Old 02-29-2012, 12:18 AM   #541 (permalink)
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8 players, and you think the Raptors are going to land the next one, ye good luck with that, and none of those players except kobe and duncan have won anything, and even they had an unbelievable roster, and kobe went 13, so you could always luck out. This draft is almost always about luck, look at rondo
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:19 AM   #542 (permalink)
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Putting words in my mouth? Instant loss of credibility.
you typed 'em, not me. if you want to hold up teams like the clips that have been spectacularly bad for many, many seasons as proof that your theory is a good idea, you are going to have to take some ridicule. especially when you are trying to counter the argument that it is not worth suffering through many, many seasons of tanking for the off chance that you might be good one day.

you really think clips fans would say all these years as the laughingstock of the nba were worth it just to get griffin? 0 division titles since 1970...
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:20 AM   #543 (permalink)
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You'd build your franchise around a point guard who can't shoot? I won't.
He's a career 49 FG% shooter. He's tough, gets to the rim/line is a great defender and is a great facilitator.

This season he's averaging 15ppg/9.5apg/5rpg......yeah i'd take him.

He doesn't shoot well from three, but averages less then one attempt per game.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:21 AM   #544 (permalink)
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you build a winning culture here, constantly make it to the playoffs and people will want to come here and play, its easy to attract FA when you win, this whole no one wants to come here thing, maybe it also includes the team being complete crap for the better part of its history.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:22 AM   #545 (permalink)
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Good things - perhaps. I am talking about great things.
Why? If JV can be as good as we think he will, Bargs keeps this up, we draft one more star ( you never know) all this capspace and trading peaces + Casey's system, as far as I understand we can be a very good all around team with potential to win it all in 4 years or so
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:27 AM   #546 (permalink)
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Regarding Rondo, besides his shooting (which isn't too difficult to improve), I don't know how he'll fare not playing with veteran, future hall of famers.

On a separate note, Minny MIGHT make the playoffs this year. They sat and waited for many many many years and now they MIGHT make the playoffs. The last time they had a winning record was in 2004-2005 by the way.

LAC waited a long time to make the postseason and waited an eternity to land B.Griffin.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:38 AM   #547 (permalink)
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JJ tonight: 16 points on 50% shooting, 8 boards, 3 assists, 3 steals. yeah, chandler is soooo much better than this guy. we MUST use our flexibility to get WC
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:42 AM   #548 (permalink)
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you typed 'em, not me. if you want to hold up teams like the clips that have been spectacularly bad for many, many seasons as proof that your theory is a good idea, you are going to have to take some ridicule. especially when you are trying to counter the argument that it is not worth suffering through many, many seasons of tanking for the off chance that you might be good one day.

you really think clips fans would say all these years as the laughingstock of the nba were worth it just to get griffin? 0 division titles since 1970...
I don't have to do anything. Most of all, I don't have to be talking to you, who has become increasingly abrasive over the last couple of years. I guess not everyone wears authority equally well.

Still - go ahead. Build your team of good players and watch it reach playoffs season after season only to bow out after a couple of rounds at most and thus have no real chance to improve via the draft. Talk to fans in Atlanta, they would have some feedback, I am sure.

Me - I'd prefer to know what I am suffering for.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:42 AM   #549 (permalink)
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we MUST use our flexibility to get WC
agreed

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Old 02-29-2012, 12:43 AM   #550 (permalink)
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JJ tonight: 16 points on 50% shooting, 8 boards, 3 assists, 3 steals. yeah, chandler is soooo much better than this guy. we MUST use our flexibility to get WC
lmao you're acting like it's gonna become a trend.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:43 AM   #551 (permalink)
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Jason Kidd couldn't shoot for the better part of his early career. He turned out alright I guess.

Rondo has significantly improved his jumper each season he's been in the league. It's only a matter of time before it comes along. He's definitely putting in the time.
He has turned out all right. Never been a franchise-level player, though. Never carried a team either.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:45 AM   #552 (permalink)
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He has turned out all right. Never been a franchise-level player, though. Never carried a team either.
which franchise-level player has ever won by himself?
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:45 AM   #553 (permalink)
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He's a career 49 FG% shooter. He's tough, gets to the rim/line is a great defender and is a great facilitator.

This season he's averaging 15ppg/9.5apg/5rpg......yeah i'd take him.

He doesn't shoot well from three, but averages less then one attempt per game.
I'd take him, no question, he is a very good player, just not someone to build your franchise around.

Would you take him over Paul? Rose? Williams?
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:46 AM   #554 (permalink)
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I'd take him, no question, he is a very good player, just not someone to build your franchise around.

Would you take him over Paul? Rose? Williams?
no, not that that's the point.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:46 AM   #555 (permalink)
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The Raptors are fucking garbage. NBL playoffs are starting in a few weeks.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:47 AM   #556 (permalink)
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which franchise-level player has ever won by himself?
Carter? Jefferson? Martin? I'd say with two other All-Stars and a very good PF he had his chances.

No player can win it by himself, true. But only two teams without a mega-star (or two) have ever won a championship, and Nowitzki was/is a border-line mega-star.

Last edited by MikeToronto; 02-29-2012 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:51 AM   #557 (permalink)
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Regarding Rondo, besides his shooting (which isn't too difficult to improve), I don't know how he'll fare not playing with veteran, future hall of famers.

On a separate note, Minny MIGHT make the playoffs this year. They sat and waited for many many many years and now they MIGHT make the playoffs. The last time they had a winning record was in 2004-2005 by the way.

LAC waited a long time to make the postseason and waited an eternity to land B.Griffin.
You can add Chicago post-Jordan to this list, although the fans of 6-title team should be made to suffer for a while after.

Chicago has Rose. Clips have Griffin and Paul. I am not sure about Love and Rubio, but both can reach that level very soon. That's who you build winners around.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:17 AM   #558 (permalink)
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Name one great player who emerged from the environment. One. Franchise-level guy who emerged from the environment. Please.
I have no idea what franchise-level guy means. That's just gibberish. I can name some great basketball players that might have amounted to merely being good. That's pretty easy, although it is a bit of an imaginative exercise. Manu Ginobili. Tony Parker. Dennis Rodman. Joe Dumars. Reggie Miller. Mark Jackson. Karl Malone. Stockton. Iguodala might be on his way suddenly. It goes on and on. Pick any great and imagine him on a weak team. Poor franchises can drag down talent, perhaps more than a singular talent can raise a franchise.

It's really easy to see a lot of really good players that never got a sniff of greatness while not being able to be a part of a strong, well-balanced team with excellent role development. There's more to the game than just getting the next MJ. You're mentioning of Atlanta as a team not to be modelled after lends itself to my way of thinking. They suffer continuously for not working well together and looking for one guy to carry them too much.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:58 AM   #559 (permalink)
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I don't have to do anything. Most of all, I don't have to be talking to you, who has become increasingly abrasive over the last couple of years. I guess not everyone wears authority equally well.

Still - go ahead. Build your team of good players and watch it reach playoffs season after season only to bow out after a couple of rounds at most and thus have no real chance to improve via the draft. Talk to fans in Atlanta, they would have some feedback, I am sure.

Me - I'd prefer to know what I am suffering for.
mike

i am out today, but will take this up with you via pm later. for the record, and so you don't label me as something i am not, i have never given you an infraction or done anything to abuse my so-called authority with you. we debate often because we have different opinions. but don't go thinking that you are innocent of being abrasive. you have a known history of being defensive, you don't hesitate to make arguments personal, and you tried to launch a campaign on another site to complain about this one. talk about pot and kettle.

you don't need to be talking to me, but you always do, because, like me, you enjoy arguing.


and back to the argument at hand, since you are talking about the wolves, i seem to remember that they tanked and drafted a superstar in kg, and then languished in mediocrity with him for years until being forced to trade him. this is not an issue as simple as waiting around for a star.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:39 AM   #560 (permalink)
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We're not getting Chandler

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Chandler’s options are to sign with the Nuggets long-term, return overseas to play out the year (this time in Italy, according to his agent) or to sign an offer sheet with another team this week. The Nuggets aren’t interested in signing Chandler only for the rest of the season, which would turn him into an unrestricted free agent this summer. According to sources, Toronto has balked at Chandler’s asking price, but has not completely closed the door if he becomes unrestricted and is willing to accept less money. Raptors president/general manager Bryan Colangelo has said in the past that he is interested in extended Barbosa, who will be unrestricted this season. Colangelo drafted Barbosa while running the Phoenix Suns. Toronto Sun
http://hoopshype.com/rumors/tag/toronto_raptors
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