Wilson Chandler back from China, flies to Toronto - Page 26
Old 02-28-2012, 07:25 PM   #501 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,314
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
starting at 8 mil/year, speaking for myself of course but since that's been whats been discussed on this board for a while i think carp agrees.
I don't think 8Mil/yr for Chandler is overpaying when you look around at what 8Mil gets you in the NBA.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 08:03 PM   #502 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 10,399
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Overpay: tradng away an asset just for capspace only to either; A/ lose out on a FA by bidding 8M/year or B/ acquire another asset by overpaying so another team won't match.
it's obviously difficult to evaluate, but I would say chandler is worth somewhere between 7 and 8. Gallinari got 11 and personally I like Chandler more. I would have no problem with 8, even 9 would be acceptable, if a little riskier.

And I don't get why people keep harping about D'Antoni system. Players who were good under D'Antoni, were good even without him. It might have some merit with PGs who can benefit from the freedom he gives them, but for a SF? Not so much. Marion, Amare, Barbosa, JJ were very good players under him and very good players elsewhere.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 08:07 PM   #503 (permalink)
grabbin boards, droppin dimes, and lightin them up

Senior Member
 
Alex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,259
Representing:
Default

Luke Walton makes 5 mill a year. Chandler deserves 9 mill +. Look at what some SF's are making. But at the same time JJ is progressing very well, and if he can come back next year as a legitimate offensive threat there's not much of a reason to pick up Willy C.
Alex is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 08:10 PM   #504 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,314
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
Luke Walton makes 5 mill a year. Chandler deserves 9 mill +. Look at what some SF's are making. But at the same time JJ is progressing very well, and if he can come back next year as a legitimate offensive threat there's not much of a reason to pick up Willy C.
So "if" JJ can improve in 6-8 months there's no need to get Chandler? lol
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 08:23 PM   #505 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,497
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
So "if" JJ can improve in 6-8 months there's no need to get Chandler? lol
JJ is already as good, no need for the if. We need elite talents now, WC is just a good player.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 08:25 PM   #506 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,314
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
it's obviously difficult to evaluate, but I would say chandler is worth somewhere between 7 and 8. Gallinari got 11 and personally I like Chandler more. I would have no problem with 8, even 9 would be acceptable, if a little riskier.

And I don't get why people keep harping about D'Antoni system. Players who were good under D'Antoni, were good even without him. It might have some merit with PGs who can benefit from the freedom he gives them, but for a SF? Not so much. Marion, Amare, Barbosa, JJ were very good players under him and very good players elsewhere.
+1
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 08:27 PM   #507 (permalink)
I believe in Masai

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,056
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
it's all about odds
odds of getting a franchise talent through the draft may be very low, but the odds of getting that type of player through free agency or trades are zero (in toronto).

So, if you want that type of player, you have to go through draft and for that you need to tank. If you're ok with a philadelphia/indiana/denver type of team, that's fine, as long as you're not deluding yourself we could win a title WITHOUT winning the draft lottery (and by winning I don't mean getting the #1 pick, but getting the next duncan/rose/durant).
yes, i am well acquainted with probability, thanks. and the probability of getting a super-duper star via that draft or any other process is next to none. don't get me wrong, i fully support operation tank right now. we had no other choice. but if you are content to keep tanking, year after year after year, in the hope that a draft might have a guy like that and that we might get him, you are likely in a minority. hell, the probability that nba basketball ceases to exist in canada is probably more likely than the raps landing a super duper star and surrounding him with championship talent before fans and ownership are totally fed up.

we have no winning culture here. getting a good, solid team that competes every year is a better start than coming bottom five for 10 straight years hoping that we might land a stud. because realistically speaking, we probably won't land a guy like that any time soon.

tank now, but don't tank endlessly. that is the worst outcome possible for this team in the long run. take your shot, and rebuild again later. you can't just tank and pray.


edit - and for the record, phily is 21-14, 4th in the conference, indy is 22-12, 3rd in the conference, and denver is 18-17, and just out of the playoffs in the west. i'd take the first 2 of those, no problem. and denver is in that position despite getting jobbed out of 3 key players this year.

Last edited by 'trane; 02-28-2012 at 11:07 PM.
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 09:00 PM   #508 (permalink)
Follow @raptorsforum on twitter

Senior Member

 
box92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,884
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Overpay: tradng away an asset just for capspace only to either; A/ lose out on a FA by bidding 8M/year or B/ acquire another asset by overpaying so another team won't match.
well barbosa is probably gone after this season anyways so it doesnt really matter, not trading him for something good in return is better than letting him walk
box92 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 09:02 PM   #509 (permalink)
Follow @raptorsforum on twitter

Senior Member

 
box92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,884
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
yes, i am well acquainted with probability, thanks. and the probability of getting a super-duper star via that draft or any other process is next to none. don't get me wrong, i fully support operation tank right now. we had no other choice. but if you are content to keep tanking, year after year after year, in the hope that a draft might have a guy like that and that we might get him, you are likely in a minority. hell, the probability that nba basketball ceases to exist in canada is probably more likely than the raps landing a super duper star and surrounding him with championship talent before fans and ownership are totally fed up.

we have no winning culture here. getting a good, solid team that competes every year is a better start than coming bottom five for 10 straight years hoping that we might land a stud. because realistically speaking, we probably won't land a guy like that any time soon.

tank now, but don't tank endlessly. that is the worst outcome possible for this team in the long run. take your shot, and rebuild again later. you can't just tank and pray.

+1
box92 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 09:07 PM   #510 (permalink)
Captain of the Jamario Moon fan club.

Born Unready
 
Dark Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Electric Avenue
Posts: 15,648
Representing:
Default

Wrong thread, but fuck it let's sign Chandler.
Dark Knight is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 09:24 PM   #511 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

Senior Member
 
pzabby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: toronto
Posts: 7,171
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
it's obviously difficult to evaluate, but I would say chandler is worth somewhere between 7 and 8. Gallinari got 11 and personally I like Chandler more. I would have no problem with 8, even 9 would be acceptable, if a little riskier.

And I don't get why people keep harping about D'Antoni system. Players who were good under D'Antoni, were good even without him. It might have some merit with PGs who can benefit from the freedom he gives them, but for a SF? Not so much. Marion, Amare, Barbosa, JJ were very good players under him and very good players elsewhere.
marion, amare, barbo all were that good under dantoni and later on because of nash. Nash built those players. I remember a commercial about nash where it had highlights of those four players, and their "career high stats", and then a pic of nash. JJ wasn't very good until he came to the raps, which he is now making a name for himself. So the players you just listed were good not because they were under dantoni, but because they played alongside arguably the greatest pg of all time. Now some other players who played under dantoni, without nash, they dropped off considerably after leaving his team, including wilson chandler.

and don't give me the bullshit that wc shot less and that's why he scored less, who says he'd score more by taking more shots? maybe the shots he wasn't taking was a result of him not having any other viable shots, not that he wasn't allowed to. Who's to say he can create enough opportunities in TO or anywhere else to create enough high chance shots to average 18 ppg on 50 percent shooting?
pzabby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 10:31 PM   #512 (permalink)
LX
effin' ineffable

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 30,562
Representing:
Default

I agree completely with 'trane. You build a strong team first and foremost. Great players can emerge from that environment as much as they can from the draft.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 10:33 PM   #513 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,818
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
marion, amare, barbo all were that good under dantoni and later on because of nash. Nash built those players. I remember a commercial about nash where it had highlights of those four players, and their "career high stats", and then a pic of nash. JJ wasn't very good until he came to the raps, which he is now making a name for himself. So the players you just listed were good not because they were under dantoni, but because they played alongside arguably the greatest pg of all time. Now some other players who played under dantoni, without nash, they dropped off considerably after leaving his team, including wilson chandler.

and don't give me the bullshit that wc shot less and that's why he scored less, who says he'd score more by taking more shots? maybe the shots he wasn't taking was a result of him not having any other viable shots, not that he wasn't allowed to. Who's to say he can create enough opportunities in TO or anywhere else to create enough high chance shots to average 18 ppg on 50 percent shooting?
kay there "Wilson Chandler is worth 4m".
Chandler never played with Nash.

It's not bs, it's elementary math.

lol who in the league does this?
Kirby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 10:36 PM   #514 (permalink)
I believe in Masai

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,056
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
kay there "Wilson Chandler is worth 4m".
Chandler never played with Nash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
who played under dantoni, without nash,
.
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 10:37 PM   #515 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,818
Representing:
Default

true my bad.
Kirby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 10:38 PM   #516 (permalink)
Follow @raptorsforum on twitter

Senior Member

 
box92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,884
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
I agree completely with 'trane. You build a strong team first and foremost. Great players can emerge from that environment as much as they can from the draft.
and it also attracts FA
box92 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 10:42 PM   #517 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,497
Representing:
Default

I agree with several points in this thread, but still not convinced WC at 10M per makes a significant impact on this team. DD needs to take a big step, JV needs to make a big impact for this team to really take a step forward. Another decent SF isn't a game changer.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 10:44 PM   #518 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,314
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I agree with several points in this thread, but still not convinced WC at 10M per makes a significant impact on this team. DD needs to take a big step, JV needs to make a big impact for this team to really take a step forward. Another decent SF isn't a game changer.
Again....where are you coming up with 10Mil/yr?
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 10:48 PM   #519 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,497
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Again....where are you coming up with 10Mil/yr?
if you think Denver doesn't match 8M per, you're being naive. It's going to cost more than that to pry him loose.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 10:49 PM   #520 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,314
Representing:
Default

Get er done BC

jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24