Wilson Chandler back from China, flies to Toronto - Page 25
Old 02-28-2012, 04:47 PM   #481 (permalink)
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If all goes well, next season the raps will be like 2010-2011 Indiana Pacers
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:47 PM   #482 (permalink)
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if we let barbosa go would that give us more win? how many...say 5 or 10 the most...which means we got further away from a good pick...

we are already in the middle of the season...no single player can change what the Raptors is right now (well except kdurant...but that's for another topic)

IMHO...let's just be happy with what we have right now...on the bright side this team could land us a good pick...then with our 4.7M cap plus letting go of barbosa's 7M we can go for a really good free agent...

AB, DD, good pick, JC, JV, JJ, AJ, ED and good free agent...and new improve defense...hopefully that will put us pass the .500 mark next year...just my opinion
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:48 PM   #483 (permalink)
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If all goes well, next season the raps will be like 2010-2011 Indiana Pacers
Exactly.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:12 PM   #484 (permalink)
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If all goes well, next season the raps will be like 2010-2011 Indiana Pacers
Don't be silly, we don't have nearly enough white guys.

Last edited by Dark Knight; 02-28-2012 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:12 PM   #485 (permalink)
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Once again, I don't care what BC wants. If I am the owner of this franchise and I have a clear goal of eventually winning a title and I trust my GM to be capable of putting together a team capable of that, I remove minute pressures from him to enable him to work towards that goal.

We wouldn't be tanking. We would be drafting and developing young talent while waiting for the opportunity to present itself. Doesn't have to be draft - having enough young talent helped Clips to Paul - a definite franchise-caliber player. Having already drafted Griffin also helped, of course.

What would going to the playoffs next year achieve?
Dude, I know where you are coming from, and I feel/felt the same way, but try getting management telling the fans that we arent expecting to make the playoffs for the next few years and just going to develop talent, lets say this takes 3-4 years, you really think demar and Bargs is going to stay 4 years from now if we still arent a team making the playoffs? ye you gotta develop talent, but you also got to pick up good young FA when available, we got JJ for a pick, we didn tdraf thim, we still go thim when he was young and are grooming him, same thing could apply to WC
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:29 PM   #486 (permalink)
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It's about taking steps, I personally want to see this team be like 2010/2011 Pacers (or better next year), why? It would mean the players we have are actually developing and are making a step. MikeToronto-I get your sentiment, draft picks are of great importance. BUT at the same time you can't just tell management, fans, etc, we are just going to depend on the draft to fill out our needs - Minny MIGHT make the playoffs this year, the last year they had a winning record was in 2004-2005. They had an abundance of draft picks. There are few, if any guarantees in the draft.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:35 PM   #487 (permalink)
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i am definitely not in favour of the 'tank forever in the hopes you might land a jordan one day' strategy.

when your team needs to rebuild you do so, and sometimes you have to be pretty bad to do that. but you need to set a goal of competing again, and work towards that. i think next year, and maybe - maybe - the year after that, are the longest this team can go without putting quality product on the floor. we don't need to win the conference in that time frame, but we need a developing core and a team that comes in and plays like pros, expecting to win more games than they lose. and it has to be a team with room to grow together.

if bc can accomplish that within the next year and a half, most toronto fans will be more than happy, even without getting a lebron/durant/rose/jordan.

waiting around at the bottom of the league on a long-term basis hoping to draft a superstar at some unknown time is no way to build a franchise.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:59 PM   #488 (permalink)
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Noone said anything about forever. But how did Bulls get Rose? How did Thunder get Durant?

I am not advocating tanking per se. However, I fail to see the point of spending serious money on free agents prior to achieving the primary goal of any successful rebuilding effort - drafting a franchise player to build the contender around. Marginally improving the team before achieving this goal is fine so long as it happens via draft (on the cheap) or via natural evolution of the existing talent - but any attempts at signing players who do not represent a quantum leap in talent won't lead the team closer to contention.

I agree to suffer for a clearly defined goal, not for another shot at mediocrity.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:07 PM   #489 (permalink)
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i clearly defined a goal. waiting for a draft pick that may never come in a draft that is mostly luck is pretty much the least defined goal i can think of, and totally unrealistic.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:12 PM   #490 (permalink)
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Noone said anything about forever. But how did Bulls get Rose? How did Thunder get Durant?
Well, Chicago had a 1.4% chance at winning the lottery. And the Sonics tanked so hard to get Durant that they never fully recovered in time, eventually losing the team...

Not exactly prime methods of obtaining an elite player.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:45 PM   #491 (permalink)
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Well, Chicago had a 1.4% chance at winning the lottery. And the Sonics tanked so hard to get Durant that they never fully recovered in time, eventually losing the team...

Not exactly prime methods of obtaining an elite player.
sonics didn't move because of the tanking, it was because of the arena

you can spin it anyway you want, but bottom line is most good teams had a really, really good player acquired with the #1 or #2 pick. And regardless of how you feel about karma and other things like that, mathematically speaking, the team with the lowest wins has the highest chance. It makes no difference if past history wasn't kind to the worst record, as long as the draft lottery is not rigged, it's better to tank than not to tank (for future success). And that's a fact.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:47 PM   #492 (permalink)
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Can it really be that difficult to unload Barbosa and take back less salary.....doesn't LAL have the Odom TPE?
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:48 PM   #493 (permalink)
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i clearly defined a goal. waiting for a draft pick that may never come in a draft that is mostly luck is pretty much the least defined goal i can think of, and totally unrealistic.
it's all about odds
odds of getting a franchise talent through the draft may be very low, but the odds of getting that type of player through free agency or trades are zero (in toronto).

So, if you want that type of player, you have to go through draft and for that you need to tank. If you're ok with a philadelphia/indiana/denver type of team, that's fine, as long as you're not deluding yourself we could win a title WITHOUT winning the draft lottery (and by winning I don't mean getting the #1 pick, but getting the next duncan/rose/durant).
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:51 PM   #494 (permalink)
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Can it really be that difficult to unload Barbosa and take back less salary.....doesn't LAL have the Odom TPE?
Why unload an asset for free to overpay for another asset?
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:14 PM   #495 (permalink)
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Why unload an asset for free to overpay for another asset?
for once i'm loving what carp has to say, keep it up!
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:18 PM   #496 (permalink)
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Why unload an asset for free to overpay for another asset?
define overpay


BTW, has Chandler gone to visit any other NBA teams?

Last edited by jeffb; 02-28-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:22 PM   #497 (permalink)
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for once i'm loving what carp has to say, keep it up!
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:22 PM   #498 (permalink)
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define overpay
starting at 8 mil/year, speaking for myself of course but since that's been whats been discussed on this board for a while i think carp agrees.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:23 PM   #499 (permalink)
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it's all about odds
odds of getting a franchise talent through the draft may be very low, but the odds of getting that type of player through free agency or trades are zero (in toronto).

So, if you want that type of player, you have to go through draft and for that you need to tank. If you're ok with a philadelphia/indiana/denver type of team, that's fine, as long as you're not deluding yourself we could win a title WITHOUT winning the draft lottery (and by winning I don't mean getting the #1 pick, but getting the next duncan/rose/durant).
+1

Let's see if the message gets through coming from a different source.

There is actually another way of getting a franchise guy - accumulating enough young assets/picks to entice a team with a disgruntled star to trade him (i.e. Deron Williams). However, for Toronto as an undesirable destination for most US-born players, I'd maintain that the draft route is the only option. Regardless, though, the "tanking" strategy will produce materiel for both.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:24 PM   #500 (permalink)
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define overpay


BTW, has Chandler gone to visit any other NBA teams?
Overpay: tradng away an asset just for capspace only to either; A/ lose out on a FA by bidding 8M/year or B/ acquire another asset by overpaying so another team won't match.
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