Wilson Chandler back from China, flies to Toronto - Page 24
Old 02-28-2012, 04:51 PM   #461 (permalink)
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horseshit.



realistic assessment of player's value.


I rest my case
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:52 PM   #462 (permalink)
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trade Ed, give minutes to LK at PF, WC, JJ, demar and hopefully lamb, will take care of the wing spots
Sure, we could do that regardless of signing Chandler...

Do you believe that Chandler is 4-5 times better than JJ?
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:54 PM   #463 (permalink)
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if you have the 'larry bird' rights to a player, as denver does with wc, you can go over the cap to sign him.
this means that lakers which is already way over that cap (or any other team over the cap) will not have any chance to sign free agent...

is the same rule applies if it is a trade?
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:54 PM   #464 (permalink)
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Sure, we could do that regardless of signing Chandler...

Do you believe that Chandler is 4-5 times better than JJ?
not 4-5 times better, but what other SF can we get that is goign to be much better, atleast with WC and JJ, you get 48 solid minutes at the SF position on most if not all nights
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:55 PM   #465 (permalink)
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I rest my case
good thing you're not a lawyer
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:58 PM   #466 (permalink)
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Player 2011/12
Jose Manuel Calderon $9,780,993
Andrea Bargnani $9,000,000
Leandrinho Barbosa $7,600,000
Amir Johnson $5,500,000
Linas Kleiza $4,605,000
Jerryd Bayless $3,042,280
DeMar DeRozan $2,625,000
Ed Davis $2,063,040
James Johnson $1,833,120
Jamaal Magloire $1,352,181
Anthony Carter $1,352,181
Gary Forbes
Rasual Butler $1,229,255
Aaron Gray $915,852
Solomon Alabi $830,000
TOTALS: $51,728,902
Yes, the NBA employs a "soft cap," which means that teams can sign free agents up to that cap, but can exceed that cap point in certain situations. These situations include re-signing your own free agents (if they meet certain criteria), matching an offer to a restricted free agent, or using things like the Mid Level Exception to sign another team's free agent to a moderate contract. So there is no actual limit on how much a team can spend - it just gets harder to spend once you go over the cap.

Oh, and just for your reference, NEVER use HoopsHype for information like this. Hoopsworld is okay, but I highly recommend you bookmark Shamsports.com if you are interested in this sort of thing. The single most reliable salary site, in my opinion.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:03 PM   #467 (permalink)
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Yes, the NBA employs a "soft cap," which means that teams can sign free agents up to that cap, but can exceed that cap point in certain situations. These situations include re-signing your own free agents (if they meet certain criteria), matching an offer to a restricted free agent, or using things like the Mid Level Exception to sign another team's free agent to a moderate contract. So there is no actual limit on how much a team can spend - it just gets harder to spend once you go over the cap.

Oh, and just for your reference, NEVER use HoopsHype for information like this. Hoopsworld is okay, but I highly recommend you bookmark Shamsports.com if you are interested in this sort of thing. The single most reliable salary site, in my opinion.
you cannot go over trying to give an offer?
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:08 PM   #468 (permalink)
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good thing you're not a lawyer
How do you know that?
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:10 PM   #469 (permalink)
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How do you know that?
just a guess.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:12 PM   #470 (permalink)
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you cannot go over trying to give an offer?
There are many exceptions, but they break down pretty simply into three categories.

1) Retaining your own free agents. In most cases, a team will have Bird or Early Bird rights, which allow a team to go over the cap to various degrees to make an offer to their own free agents. Also, an offer made by another team to a restricted free agent of yours can be matched without consideration for the cap.

2) Trading for player. There is a fairly complex set of rules governing trades, but in effect a team can go over the cap (or further over the cap if they are already over) in a trade so long as the salaries outgoing and incoming match within a certain margin (commonly 125%, and more recently 150% for non-tax teams).

3) Making an offer to another team's free agent. A team can only make an offer to another team's free agent if they have cap space to fit their offer in, with a few exceptions. The most common is the Mid Level Exception: a team can make an offer up to the average NBA salary, even if doing so puts them over the cap. This can be done only once per season. There are other exceptions as well, but none as potent as the MLE.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:13 PM   #471 (permalink)
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not 4-5 times better, but what other SF can we get that is goign to be much better, atleast with WC and JJ, you get 48 solid minutes at the SF position on most if not all nights
How about not signing other SF for the sake of signing other SF? How about using what we have, developing the existing talent (which, in JJ's case, is going quite nicely) while waiting for a chance to draft a franchise player?

The course is absolutely clear to me - if the Raptors ever want to contend, they need to suck until they luck into franchise-level talent in the draft. Then, and only then, can they allow themselves to become better, hopefully having accumulated enough talent to either explode like the Thunder or to trade some of youth for veterans capable of immediate production.

Signing players like Chandler does nothing to achieve this goal. Ergo, it shouldn't be done.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:15 PM   #472 (permalink)
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How about not signing other SF for the sake of signing other SF? How about using what we have, developing the existing talent (which, in JJ's case, is going quite nicely) while waiting for a chance to draft a franchise player?

The course is absolutely clear to me - if the Raptors ever want to contend, they need to suck until they luck into franchise-level talent in the draft. Then, and only then, can they allow themselves to become better, hopefully having accumulated enough talent to either explode like the Thunder or to trade some of youth for veterans capable of immediate production.

Signing players like Chandler does nothing to achieve this goal. Ergo, it shouldn't be done.
Plus one.

He's just not enough of a difference maker
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:18 PM   #473 (permalink)
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How about not signing other SF for the sake of signing other SF? How about using what we have, developing the existing talent (which, in JJ's case, is going quite nicely) while waiting for a chance to draft a franchise player?

The course is absolutely clear to me - if the Raptors ever want to contend, they need to suck until they luck into franchise-level talent in the draft. Then, and only then, can they allow themselves to become better, hopefully having accumulated enough talent to either explode like the Thunder or to trade some of youth for veterans capable of immediate production.

Signing players like Chandler does nothing to achieve this goal. Ergo, it shouldn't be done.
Ye but how long are other players going to wait for this player to come before leaving
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:20 PM   #474 (permalink)
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Ye but how long are other players going to wait for this player to come before leaving
I don't care. Plus, rookies can't leave.

Look at post-Jordan Chicago. Look at Seattle/OKC. Look at Memphis. Even ever-fucked-up Clippers and Wolves managed to get exciting and promising following this same route!

That's the blueprint we need to follow if we ever want to seriously contend for the title.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:22 PM   #475 (permalink)
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Why Wilson Chandler won't want to sign with Denver: He wants to start and make the most $ he can.

Why Denver might want to sign him: To use him in a trade immediately OR A BIG IF, PLAY LAWSON, AFFALO, GALLO AND WC, and Nene at C.

Why Denver may not want to sign him: They are already quite deep this year AND/OR they already have a lot of $ invested in Nene, Gallo, Affalo, Harrington, Birdman and Koufos, not to mention they'll have to give Lawson a payday soon enough.

Why Toronto wants to sign him now: To avoid going through hysteria in the summer and/or get WC used to Casey's system early on.

Why Toronto shouldn't sign him at all: A worse but much much much much cheaper alternative in James Johnson.

Why Toronto should sign him: We can all agree that the raps need more talent.

Anywho, the only way the raps get WC this season is by trading Barbosa immediately to Indy who are significantly under the cap, with ONLY 13 PLAYERS ON THEIR ROSTER. BC could even just accept a pick (conditional 2nd rounder, for example), therefore the raps would only have 14 players on the roster, thus opening up a spot for WC. Raps would have enough capspace to offer WC something that Denver wouldn't match. Indy gets deeper as they want homecourt in the playoffs, a current backcourt of Collison/George, being backed up by Hill/LB, being backed up by AJ Price/L.Stephenson, not to mention they have Dahntay Jones.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:31 PM   #476 (permalink)
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I have a question. If we only offer him our capspace for this season @ 4.3Mil and Denver matches wouldn't that make Chandler unrestricted this summer?
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:33 PM   #477 (permalink)
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Anywho, the only way the raps get WC this season is by trading Barbosa immediately to Indy who are significantly under the cap, with ONLY 13 PLAYERS ON THEIR ROSTER. BC could even just accept a pick (conditional 2nd rounder, for example), therefore the raps would only have 14 players on the roster, thus opening up a spot for WC. Raps would have enough capspace to offer WC something that Denver wouldn't match. Indy gets deeper as they want homecourt in the playoffs, a current backcourt of Collison/George, being backed up by Hill/LB, being backed up by AJ Price/L.Stephenson, not to mention they have Dahntay Jones.
That Indiana trade is something I've brought up as a good option. But it is by no means the only option.

A trade with Barbosa needs to free up, say 4 million to make a 8.3M (starting salary) offer to Chandler. May not even need that much. So a basic 150% trade (a trade to a team under the tax apron) would mean we need to take back 5.27M freeing up 2.63M. To get the additional million or so we need to free up, we can simply include one of our minimum salary guys in the trade - say, Anthony Carter or Rasual Butler. Minimum salary contracts don't count towards the trade calculation, so we still only need to take back 5.27M, but have more like 8.7 going out instead of 7.9, leaving us with 3.6M or more of freed up cap room, which would give us enough room to sign Chandler to a 4 year, 33.7M contract.

Of course, simply including other pieces in the trade, or making a trade based on Jose Calderon, would be other ways to do it as well. Anyway, Indiana is a good option, but not the only one.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:33 PM   #478 (permalink)
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I have a question. If we only offer him our capspace for this season @ 4.3Mil and Denver matches wouldn't that make Chandler unrestricted this summer?
Restricted free agent offers must be 2 years in length at least.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:38 PM   #479 (permalink)
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I don't care. Plus, rookies can't leave.

Look at post-Jordan Chicago. Look at Seattle/OKC. Look at Memphis. Even ever-fucked-up Clippers and Wolves managed to get exciting and promising following this same route!

That's the blueprint we need to follow if we ever want to seriously contend for the title.
Its not the mentality this team needs though, who wants to come here and play knowing your going to be tanking, BC has one year left on his contract, you really think hes just not going to do anything at all? he probably wants to make the playoffs next year
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:43 PM   #480 (permalink)
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Its not the mentality this team needs though, who wants to come here and play knowing your going to be tanking, BC has one year left on his contract, you really think hes just not going to do anything at all? he probably wants to make the playoffs next year
Once again, I don't care what BC wants. If I am the owner of this franchise and I have a clear goal of eventually winning a title and I trust my GM to be capable of putting together a team capable of that, I remove minute pressures from him to enable him to work towards that goal.

We wouldn't be tanking. We would be drafting and developing young talent while waiting for the opportunity to present itself. Doesn't have to be draft - having enough young talent helped Clips to Paul - a definite franchise-caliber player. Having already drafted Griffin also helped, of course.

What would going to the playoffs next year achieve?
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