why are people so surprised
Old 11-18-2013, 04:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I was expecting this, but even so I'm surprised at how reviled casey/gay/demar/lowry are (each to a different extent).

We were expected to be a more or less .500 team, we were expected to struggle a bit early due to the tough schedule, gay and demary were expected to be high volume/low efficient scorers (as they've been throughout their career) and casey was expected to struggle putting together an offense. None of this should come as a shock, and yet it appears to be such.

I see a lot of surprising positives this season (will see if they hold). Our defense is much better than I thought it would be , gay and demar are actually shooting very well from 3 and our defense is quite strong (8th in the league, but against a tough schedule). Even our offense is more efficient that it looks (15th). I think both of these are heavily influenced by our excellent rebounding (1st in the league in ORR and 9th in DRR), but still - if we maintain those rankings we'll easily be a playoff team.

We are on target to make the playoff (we are ranked 5th in the east by Hollinger's power rankings which take into account things like SOS and margin of difference), and even subjectively, we've been competitive with the 2nd tier teams (memphis/houston/portland).

Gay is having a career season in every stat BUT FG%, he just posted a 30/10 game, but people trash him because his FG% is poor and he has 0 assists. Yeah, that's bad to be sure, but then again, that was always his game - no reason to be surprised.

As for Casey, the talk was this season we'll focus on D at the expense of the O (last season BC was heavily criticized for asking for improvements in our offensive game). Casey is proving himself true to his words, we are excelling defensively and have little to no flow to our offense. But that was THE PLAN ALL ALONG.

Baring no changes, we will make the playoff with this roster, which is what most anti-tank fans were expecting. Just remember that what you see is what you get, and expecting more from this roster is actually your problem, not the team's. They are what they are and that was a known fact before the season.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The same thoughts have been on my mind. We just faced two teams that are playing at a very high level, and which can provide an example of where this team needs to get to. The fact that they almost found a way to win yesterday is a good sign.

Still, there does seem to be too much of the same pattern as last season, and that is a bit tough to bear. It is still too early to suggest that there is no way forward, especially seeing the clear improvements. But there do need to be some better results in the next couple of weeks if such knee-jerk reactions, understandable among fans, are not seen as somewhat reasonable. More of the big picture needs to come together. Casey needs to get that done, and settle in on a definitive rotation and style of play rather than reacting so much.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The only thing I'm surprised about is our offense got even uglier. I thought we hired a good offensive ass. coach but I'm not sure we're seeing the results of that. I thought we were going to play uptempo run and gun ball since we obviously have the pieces for that. Also (like many) I hoped Val would've made more progress or at least would be given the chance to gain more experience by now...

I like the picture painted in the OP, apparently our fugly style of play is actually pretty efficient. As I am about results above anything else I won't complain.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The question that comes to my mind, and remains unanswered is, "what have Demar and Rudy done to make their teammates better".
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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To be honest I am not surprised at all, but I know what you mean. Like you mentioned, we knew Rudy and DD will be the go to guys. We knew JV will do pretty good, we knew Ross has to try harder etc... I am actually pretty surprised with Fields, he has high basketball IQ and finds ways to help the team.
I am also, not surprised that Novak doesn't really see the floor and the fact Lowry is meh... I think people here was hoping we will be above .500 at this point.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Not really surprised with where we're at, everyone knew that the first 20 games of the season were going to be a real test for us as a team, much like every year.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Here's another question. Forgetting the record, who enjoys watching this team play?
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Here's another question. Forgetting the record, who enjoys watching this team play?
maybe its mother (only a mother could find this child to be pretty).

but then again, it was ugly last season when we were supposed to focus on the offense ... it's pretty clear casey has no clue on how to run an offense. Which is why he keeps going small, because it makes it a bit easier to generate some mismatches.

I expect things we'll get better, there's no way demar/gay shoot below 40% for the season and JV/amir (one of the big disappointments for me) should improve as the season goes on. We'll never be pretty, but I don't think that's casey's goal - he's clearly in the "win ugly" camp.
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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maybe its mother (only a mother could find this child to be pretty).

but then again, it was ugly last season when we were supposed to focus on the offense ... it's pretty clear casey has no clue on how to run an offense. Which is why he keeps going small, because it makes it a bit easier to generate some mismatches.

I expect things we'll get better, there's no way demar/gay shoot below 40% for the season and JV/amir (one of the big disappointments for me) should improve as the season goes on. We'll never be pretty, but I don't think that's casey's goal - he's clearly in the "win ugly" camp.
So far, his achievement is to "lose ugly". Even if Demar/Rudy get above 40%, they don't make their team-mates better, and the team will continue as a dysfunctional mess.
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm surprised it's been as ugly as it has been. Yesterday's game, they were fortunate to have made that run in the fourth quarter.... Portland got complacent with a lead that looked insurmountable. Like the Houston game, it's nice that they can battle back, but when it counts they don't have the horses. We were getting blown out in both of those games, which was only different than the Chicago game cause Chicago didn't let off the gas.

This team is surprisingly bad with all of the hype I read about it, mostly on here. We have players that aren't here to win but rather pad stats, and it's encouraged by the head coach because he has a flawed sense of what it takes to win.

We're constantly waiting for players to make huge leaps and forever disappointed. Let's stop putting so much hope on long shots.
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm surprised it's been as ugly as it has been. Yesterday's game, they were fortunate to have made that run in the fourth quarter.... Portland got complacent with a lead that looked insurmountable. Like the Houston game, it's nice that they can battle back, but when it counts they don't have the horses. We were getting blown out in both of those games, which was only different than the Chicago game cause Chicago didn't let off the gas.

This team is surprisingly bad with all of the hype I read about it, mostly on here. We have players that aren't here to win but rather pad stats, and it's encouraged by the head coach because he has a flawed sense of what it takes to win.

We're constantly waiting for players to make huge leaps and forever disappointed. Let's stop putting so much hope on long shots.
The coach encourages stat padding? Where does this come from? Is there a link? Sounds like wild speculation. They are playing like a team defensively. Not enough yet, but with pretty good results. But there is not enough team play offensively. It's not about looking for huge leaps, it's about seeing team ball throughout. And there is still time for that. But the mix is not great, and Casey has not really let anything gel. That has to start happening.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The coach encourages stat padding? Where does this come from? Is there a link? Sounds like wild speculation. They are playing like a team defensively. Not enough yet, but with pretty good results. But there is not enough team play offensively. It's not about looking for huge leaps, it's about seeing team ball throughout. And there is still time for that. But the mix is not great, and Casey has not really let anything gel. That has to start happening.
There was a story that came out a week ago or so that had Casey talking about how they had to get DD and Gay more shots..... they had to run more cause those two needed more opportunities. Also, watching the games gives the impression that they both have unlimited leash with shot attempts.... seems pretty evident stat padding is happening, otherwise we'd actually see them trust their teammates and play this team ball that you're talking about.

Can it still happen, yes.... I doubt it will. Playing Novak like he did shows the guy is grasping at straws out there. I like Novak, and think he should be able to be a part of the rotation, but not suddenly out of nowhere in crunch time and overtime. Makes no sense.

You're right though, the mix is not good right now.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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i'm not surprised, i'm bored and frustrated with the team. here's the conversation i always have with my bro:

me - rudy's chucking again today
bro - how can you always criticize him, he's got X points and he;s obviously our best player. how this his fault?
me - it's not his fault, and i'm not criticizing him. i am lamenting that i have to watch a team where rudy gay is our best player. it's boring basketball, and we lose more than we win. shitty team makeup, quasi-star as best player, poor coaching, gm who is running the last gm's team. sucks to watch.
bro - ya, but he just hit a bunch of shots, grabbed 3 boards and blocked 2 shots!
me - ya, and we;re down 15 in the 3rd...........

repeat.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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We're 29th in pace, but 1st in alibi's.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
I was expecting this, but even so I'm surprised at how reviled casey/gay/demar/lowry are (each to a different extent).

We were expected to be a more or less .500 team, we were expected to struggle a bit early due to the tough schedule, gay and demary were expected to be high volume/low efficient scorers (as they've been throughout their career) and casey was expected to struggle putting together an offense. None of this should come as a shock, and yet it appears to be such.
Thinly veiled sick brag bra.

Quick asnwer is some of us expected better. I'm pissed at Gay (and Casey) beyond belief because even if he played like he did last year and didn't crap the bed we would be sitting at 6-5 (charlotte houston especially). This team had/has a chance but Gay has to put in an effort and Casey just has to go.

I think Lowry has been hurt (which everyone expected) but he's sucked against difficult competition and Demar is demar and I didn't expect much more than what was shown.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
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We're 29th in pace, but 1st in alibi's.
if you ain't first, you're last!
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:22 PM   #17 (permalink)
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if you ain't first, you're last!
We've lasted for almost 20 years.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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really, c'mon man, this is the same movie Casey has brought here consistently since he has been here,

this is what going to happen, where going to get a lottery pick, outside of the top 6 where almost every single player will be an allstar, where all going to be choked that wiggins got taken by another team,

whats there to see with this team, nothing special, only thing interesting is the development of ross and Jonas and we cant even see that because demar and rudy are so selfish taking and ball hogging all the shots

evern though Bargs cant play on defense his offense was more fun to watch than demar and rudy, I'm still glad Bargs is gone but that's the truth, that gives you an idea about how bad it is to watch rudy and demar is,

I dont' understand why I still watch the games when I know whats going happen

Last edited by rapsmannn; 11-18-2013 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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...............................
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:31 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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maybe its mother (only a mother could find this child to be pretty).
Does Masai count as the mother of this team? Or does he have custody of BC's team


Either way, I'd hope he doesn't find this team pretty.

On topic though, I'm not really shocked by the season so far. The record, at least. I expected we'd lose a lot of close games and struggle to beat good opponents, which has been the case so far. As far as the play style goes, I thought that if we weren't good we might still be watchable because we have a lot of good athletes on the squad and JV would be getting fed in the post, boy was I wrong.

Last edited by KoolAid; 11-18-2013 at 06:36 PM.
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