why are people so surprised - Page 2
Old 11-18-2013, 06:34 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu View Post

Quick asnwer is some of us expected better.
yeah, well that was my point

there was little reason to expect anything else, it's basically a case where people had unreasonable expectations to begin with (mostly based on a stretch of games at the end of the season against teams that didn't care too much) and now that those expectations are not met, are looking for scape goats.

if you think gay is a chucker that's fair, the problem is you actually expected him to be any different.

The only difference between now and the end of last season is that we had a hot run of shooting that month, well outside the norm for our players (JV included) and now we're back to earth.

Just to be 110% clear, I'm not defending gay's style of play, I just don't understand why people are surprised about it ...
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:37 PM   #22 (permalink)
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We're 29th in pace, but 1st in alibi's.
slow pace is by design though, that's casey's approach. Defensive teams generally play at a slow pace to break down the flow of offense. Unfortunately, when you don't have players capable of creating in half-court scenarios, your offense is also going to be extra ugly.

of course, with our super athletic lineup, we are playing the worst possible style. But that's what casey did in his first season when we were better defensively, his defensive philosophy was clear from the get go, pack the paint, crawl the pace and hack everything in sight. Last season we emphasized running and we ended up being horrible at both ends.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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JV would be getting fed in the post, boy was I wrong.
if only he had a post game to speak of ... he gets most of his points on fast breaks, P&Rs and put backs. There are very few starting centers he can expose in the post right now.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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A lot does hinge on Gay. If he did improve his shooting, that alone would have helped eke out some wins. Missing uncontested jumpers in the paint regularly, tossing up floaters and missing layups when being more forceful is there as an option for a guy that was supposed to be so much stronger - all that is just very Bargsesque. And it costs the team. I don't think it's unfair to expect him to play without ridiculous lapses so frequently. I can live with hot and cold shooting. It's his approach, and the way he does not mix with the team very well that is pretty much unacceptable.

That can still change. He can still make a difference with some tweaking, and again Casey has a job set out for him. And in the end it's fairly clear what needs to happen with Rudy regardless. Gotta hope he can maintain some kind of value somehow. The feeling of being stuck with another BC albatross is not a good feeling.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:47 PM   #25 (permalink)
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if only he had a post game to speak of ... he gets most of his points on fast breaks, P&Rs and put backs. There are very few starting centers he can expose in the post right now.
Part of JV's problem is his positioning in the post. He's 2 feet too far away from the lane. Where he starts his move's lets other team's defense's collapse on him, because the moves take too long. If he was 2 feet closer, they would have a tougher time collapsing on him and his moves to the basket would be shorter and sharper.
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I expected a record similar to this, I just didn't expect so much ISO and bricks since ujiri brought in new guys
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:07 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Part of JV's problem is his positioning in the post. He's 2 feet too far away from the lane. Where he starts his move's lets other team's defense's collapse on him, because the moves take too long. If he was 2 feet closer, they would have a tougher time collapsing on him and his moves to the basket would be shorter and sharper.
I am not too concerned about JV, he still has long way to go and this is just his 2nd season, but our ball movment sucks big time. When you have two volume shooters on the court you have to have a good facilitator to run the floor and create. Lowry was OK in some games and horrible in others.
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:19 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I expected a record similar to this, I just didn't expect so much ISO and bricks since ujiri brought in new guys
Who has he really brought in though? He's signed end of the bench guys on 1/2 year deals and the majority of the rotation players were acquired before this season. This is BC's core.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:15 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Who has he really brought in though? He's signed end of the bench guys on 1/2 year deals and the majority of the rotation players were acquired before this season. This is BC's core.
I thought he meant coach Nurse.

I thought Nurse would make the offense less painful to watch but it might be worse than last year.

I'm a bit surprised/disappointed that Casey's new "Hubs" are Gay and Demar and his plan is still "ride the Hub come hell or high water". It is like he learned one lesson from the Mavs: "feed the ball to the superstar" and now without any superstars he can't adjust his plan.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:20 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
i'm not surprised, i'm bored and frustrated with the team. here's the conversation i always have with my bro:

me - rudy's chucking again today
bro - how can you always criticize him, he's got X points and he;s obviously our best player. how this his fault?
me - it's not his fault, and i'm not criticizing him. i am lamenting that i have to watch a team where rudy gay is our best player. it's boring basketball, and we lose more than we win. shitty team makeup, quasi-star as best player, poor coaching, gm who is running the last gm's team. sucks to watch.
bro - ya, but he just hit a bunch of shots, grabbed 3 boards and blocked 2 shots!
me - ya, and we;re down 15 in the 3rd...........

repeat.
sounds quite familiar like what goes on here
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:20 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I thought he meant coach Nurse.

I thought Nurse would make the offense less painful to watch but it might be worse than last year.

I'm a bit surprised/disappointed that Casey's new "Hubs" are Gay and Demar and his plan is still "ride the Hub come hell or high water". It is like he learned one lesson from the Mavs: "feed the ball to the superstar" and now without any superstars he can't adjust his plan.
all hail the new hubs, glory be thy name!
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:21 PM   #32 (permalink)
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A lot does hinge on Gay. If he did improve his shooting, that alone would have helped eke out some wins. Missing uncontested jumpers in the paint regularly, tossing up floaters and missing layups when being more forceful is there as an option for a guy that was supposed to be so much stronger - all that is just very Bargsesque. And it costs the team. I don't think it's unfair to expect him to play without ridiculous lapses so frequently. I can live with hot and cold shooting. It's his approach, and the way he does not mix with the team very well that is pretty much unacceptable.

That can still change. He can still make a difference with some tweaking, and again Casey has a job set out for him. And in the end it's fairly clear what needs to happen with Rudy regardless. Gotta hope he can maintain some kind of value somehow. The feeling of being stuck with another BC albatross is not a good feeling.
There is honestly no point unless he magically develops another dimension in his game where he can be a potent playmaker for his teammates. We are not winning with these guys plateaued at this point.

I do hope his value doesn't drop...
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:26 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Gay is holding the team back from establishing an identity.


I think Jack touched on a key point with Demar last game when he took a quick shot, mentioning how sometimes you take quick shots when you don't know if you're going to get to touch the ball again.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:55 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I think you even see the tendency with Valančiūnas now. He gets the ball and it sticks. There was some really nice ball movement at the end of last season. It wasn't just guys getting hot with their shooting. Everyone had a rhythm, everyone touched the ball, you had Amir's passing on display, lowry was finding a really nice balance with his own game and everyone elses. Now it just looks like Rudy has come into this season with making this his team being a big priority, along with justifying his contract.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:57 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
i'm not surprised, i'm bored and frustrated with the team. here's the conversation i always have with my bro:

me - rudy's chucking again today
bro - how can you always criticize him, he's got X points and he;s obviously our best player. how this his fault?
me - it's not his fault, and i'm not criticizing him. i am lamenting that i have to watch a team where rudy gay is our best player. it's boring basketball, and we lose more than we win. shitty team makeup, quasi-star as best player, poor coaching, gm who is running the last gm's team. sucks to watch.
bro - ya, but he just hit a bunch of shots, grabbed 3 boards and blocked 2 shots!
me - ya, and we;re down 15 in the 3rd...........

repeat.
nail on head.
that pretty much sums it up.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:21 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
Who has he really brought in though? He's signed end of the bench guys on 1/2 year deals and the majority of the rotation players were acquired before this season. This is BC's core.
My bad man I meant the coaching staff like nurse who I heard would help on that end.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:48 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I think you even see the tendency with Valančiūnas now. He gets the ball and it sticks. There was some really nice ball movement at the end of last season. It wasn't just guys getting hot with their shooting. Everyone had a rhythm, everyone touched the ball, you had Amir's passing on display, lowry was finding a really nice balance with his own game and everyone elses. Now it just looks like Rudy has come into this season with making this his team being a big priority, along with justifying his contract.
Watching this team and comparing to the end of last year, I wonder how much of the difference is just that other teams are caught up on scouting this group of players now. MEM was the team these guys looked best against, and they just seemed really underprepared. There's probably some approach differences, but I'll bet some of the good play from last year was a bit of an illusion due to unprepared/lackadaisical opponents.
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:06 PM   #38 (permalink)
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My bad man I meant the coaching staff like nurse who I heard would help on that end.
The assistant coaches can push all they want, but the decisions all come from the head coach. No one knows if some of the moves on the floor come from the assistant's ideas or if they are Casey's ideas.
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:23 PM   #39 (permalink)
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yeah, well that was my point

there was little reason to expect anything else, it's basically a case where people had unreasonable expectations to begin with (mostly based on a stretch of games at the end of the season against teams that didn't care too much) and now that those expectations are not met, are looking for scape goats.

if you think gay is a chucker that's fair, the problem is you actually expected him to be any different.

The only difference between now and the end of last season is that we had a hot run of shooting that month, well outside the norm for our players (JV included) and now we're back to earth.

Just to be 110% clear, I'm not defending gay's style of play, I just don't understand why people are surprised about it ...

It does not matter if Gay was "always a chucker" and no its not the point, he misses clean looks and turns the ball over too easily in the paint right now. 38% is abysmal, and if he was shooting the same as he did for us last year 43%, or better which he should be, How is asking that an unrealistic expectation to expect someone to play as well as the year before when they had a shit year or better and on par with previous years. And 43% is out of the norm? Please. And if he was playing like last year or better, you would not be able to come here and say "I told you so" and we would probabaly be 6-5 or better. But if that makes you feel good, so be it.

And as for Casey he has made 2 horendous decisions no other coach would have made and many more small decisions that were awful. and although none of us thought he was great, none of us expected that extreme level of incompetence. Even his haters are shocked at how bad some decisions have been, so no... that's not expected either.

Last edited by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu; 11-18-2013 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:37 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Watching this team and comparing to the end of last year, I wonder how much of the difference is just that other teams are caught up on scouting this group of players now. MEM was the team these guys looked best against, and they just seemed really underprepared. There's probably some approach differences, but I'll bet some of the good play from last year was a bit of an illusion due to unprepared/lackadaisical opponents.
You could also say that the style of play is more apt to get results as the season moves on. They've been beaten by some hot shooting. As bodies start to wear down, and a Portland gets 18 in the paint to Toronto's 62, it could very well be the difference. Was Portland prepared to give up 62 points in the paint?

They were having nights where they racked up 25+ assists regularly. I just think the tweaks to the offense, along with some new pressures on Rudy, have combined to bring some early disappointment. It's fixable, but even then nobody should expect them to be beating really hot teams. They just need to improve and start to get results coming before .500 gets too far away. And then find a suitor for Rudy at some point. That would be a very good season in my books, if they find that identity and then have it reinforced further by extracting the guy that just doesn't fit.
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