Why the a Marion deal is a must
Old 01-17-2009, 02:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Here's some logistics:

Marion's Contract: 17,180,000
JO's Contract: 21,352,500

Marion's deal ends after this season, while JO although he has a ETO wont exercise it unless he decides a 10 million dollar pay cut is worth while (no chance).

So basically the Raptors would free up 17,180,000 next season if they don't wish to resign Marion, or they can resign him for prolly around a 7 million dollar discount (the your old and past your prime discount) if he fits well.

To me this is important, i would rather free up contract space right now, and possibly take a flyer on one of the aging Free agents this offseason (A.I. Odom, possibly Ben Gordon, or Trevor Ariza) or make an offer sheet to one of the restricted FA (Marvin Williams, Ramon Sessions, David Lee, Paul Millsap)...or allow us to open up trade options for Bosh by increasing the contract room. Consequently it seems to me to be unlikely that BC will be able to lure one of the primo FA's in 2010 to T.O... therefore it may make more sense to make a deal in 09' while teams are dreaming of LBJ and Wade.

My Opinion is that Bosh right now is not going to stay with the team, so
either this team is going to improve through trade enough that mediocre playoff performance will interest Bosh enough to stay, or we need to move him (Draft day?)...in both situations a change is necessary right now (just look at the record...without trading CB we risk getting no return for him). I don't think that Marion is really the answer, but he offers flexibility mainly on defense...

It means Parker wont have to defend the other teams best wing player, which should help his offensive production, it means the team has better athletic ability and someone who can slash occasionally. It means Moon can matchup against other teams bench players (although even than...).

Overall i think the success of this team might fringe on this years draft, there are a few legitimate wing athletes that may one-and-done, and due to there college system (Demar Derozan, Al-Farouq Aminu,) have worse production than they probably should...This team needs to start creating options, and JO's current contract has BC's hands tied...
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Old 01-17-2009, 02:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That right there explains why we NEED Marion.

Nice post +1
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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sounds like you've made an argument for a Marbury trade over a Marion trade.

With Marion, Miami will try and pawn off Banks or another longer-term crap deal and his ability may be just enough to lift us to 9th place--just enough to miss the playoffs while maintaining the worst pick in the lottery.

His defense will help. But will it help enough? And what are the odds he stays? If he's just going to walk, the benefits of getting him are ethereal.
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Old 01-17-2009, 05:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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we should get draft piks as well
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Old 01-17-2009, 05:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
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+1
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Old 01-17-2009, 05:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by spuriousjones View Post
sounds like you've made an argument for a Marbury trade over a Marion trade.
Marbury trade won't happen... NY wouldn't do it.

IMO it's in NY's best interest to sign Ben Gordon or Boozer this summer after Marbury expires. They can't bottom out going into 2010, for one they need players there so Lebron/Wade/Bosh know they'd be winning, and they don't have a draft pick that year so losing is no benefit for them

Ben Gordon would put up like 28ppg playing D'Antoniball, heh.

Honestly though I expect the big 3 to stay put in 2010 and Amare to go to NY.
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Old 01-17-2009, 06:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Marbury trade won't happen... NY wouldn't do it.

IMO it's in NY's best interest to sign Ben Gordon or Boozer this summer after Marbury expires. They can't bottom out going into 2010, for one they need players there so Lebron/Wade/Bosh know they'd be winning, and they don't have a draft pick that year so losing is no benefit for them

Ben Gordon would put up like 28ppg playing D'Antoniball, heh.

Honestly though I expect the big 3 to stay put in 2010 and Amare to go to NY.
NY won't have capspace unless guys like Eddie Curry opt-out. Eddie and Al both have options over $10MM, Jerome James is over $6MM, Q is almost $9MM, and they have to figure out what they're going to do with nate and lee
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Old 01-17-2009, 06:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
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agreed, you made a really good point to why this trade would work.
the only thing is if we can trade Kapono in that deal as well, im sick with his traveling calls.
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Old 01-17-2009, 06:26 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I always thought JO's "injury" was more to do with waiting for a trade than being an actual injury.

Even though I am not a huge Marion fan (what an ugly shot!!), I can still see that what he brings to the table would be a huge help to this team. Sure we still wouldn't have a creative player, but that can wait until we sign Carlos again in the offseason.

Please pull the trigger soon Riley.
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I would be thrilled if we got Haslem in this deal as well...

Our frontcourt would be very nice with him being able to play PF and the occasional C against smaller Center's...Daequon Cook would be great as a 2man he's proved that he's a very capable shooter and scorer when given time...
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Old 01-17-2009, 11:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I don't think it's a must at all. I'd much rather have the cap space available in 2010 so the team can replace Bosh when he leaves. Bosh, quite simply, isn't the kind of #1 option that wins a championship anyway.
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:14 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I don't think it's a must at all. I'd much rather have the cap space available in 2010 so the team can replace Bosh when he leaves. Bosh, quite simply, isn't the kind of #1 option that wins a championship anyway.
So, letting Bosh and JO go and having cap space will make you a contender, ehh? ... seriously, do you really believe what you write?
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:17 AM   #13 (permalink)
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So, letting Bosh and JO go and having cap space will make you a contender, ehh? ... seriously, do you really believe what you write?
Who knows? Having cap space and building around a player like Wade or Joe Johnson (and the draft picks you'd get from trading Bosh, and of course Bargnani) would certainly be better than this constant state of mediocrity we find ourselves in right now.
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I mean seriously people, think outside the box here.

What is a roster of Calderon, Marion, Bosh, and Bargnani going to do in this league? Maybe win a round in the playoffs at best? Is that the goal you have as a fan? To be mediocre?

I aspire to something more.
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:28 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Who knows? Having cap space and building around a player like Wade or Joe Johnson (and the draft picks you'd get from trading Bosh, and of course Bargnani) would certainly be better than this constant state of mediocrity we find ourselves in right now.
You talk like you already have Wade and Joe Johnson willing to come to Toronto. And even so, Wade without younger Shaq caliber player would not win a championship either; as you can see right now, Miami is not exactly a basketball powerhouse. Joe Johnson is not in the same value class with Wade, so getting Joe Johnson without Bosh make no sense.

You pretty mush are preaching starting over with totally new players. That's gonna cost Raptors few years of rebuilding.
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:29 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Marion's not staying. The goal is Marvin Williams or Odom IMO, though obviously it's no guarantee we'll get them (ditto for 2010).

I'm very excited about the prospect of an Odom/Bosh/Bargnani or Williams/Bosh/Bargnani (which would be a little worse but we'd have 10 years to build a contender around them) frontcourt, with Jose and Ukic in the back. If Ukic is great we can trade Jose for a star SG and then we're probably at least a 50 win team with lots of options in the future.

Also 2011 is an awesome FA period too and we'll have Kapono/Banks/Hump all off if this deal goes through. So we can theoretically get like Michael Redd or Butler or something that year.

Wade and Johnson aren't coming to Canada. We can't offer more than the max their teams are anyways, and without Bosh why would they choose here? Both teams are set for the future, I think they'll be ok where they are. And building around Johnson solely would be stupid. Bosh is better than him and he's much older
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:30 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dogbert View Post
I mean seriously people, think outside the box here.

What is a roster of Calderon, Marion, Bosh, and Bargnani going to do in this league? Maybe win a round in the playoffs at best? Is that the goal you have as a fan? To be mediocre?

I aspire to something more.
Well, everyone aspires more, just your way of getting better is wrong.
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:35 AM   #18 (permalink)
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You talk like you already have Wade and Joe Johnson willing to come to Toronto. And even so, Wade without younger Shaq caliber player would not win a championship either; as you can see right now, Miami is not exactly a basketball powerhouse. Joe Johnson is not in the same value class with Wade, so getting Joe Johnson without Bosh make no sense.
A team of Joe Johnson, Bargnani, Calderon, and good young players you get from a Bosh trade has the chance to be a very good one.

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You pretty mush are preaching starting over with totally new players. That's gonna cost Raptors few years of rebuilding.
Uh, duh. I'm advocating rebuilding. That's the point.
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:35 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Well, everyone aspires more, just your way of getting better is wrong.
What's your way of getting better? Continuing the lost cause of building around a player in Bosh that just can't cut it?
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:39 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Banking all your chips on Johnson coming to Canada in such a hotly contested FA market isn't a wise choice. He'll have half the market offering max deals for him, and I'm not sure we could afford it if we were paying what we got back for Bosh and giving Bargnani a raise. He could easily go to NY to put up 30ppg and be a superstar in D'Antoni ball, or go play with Rose in Chicago. Toronto's young core would be worse than Atlanta's and he's already established there, so yea...
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