Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards

Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/)
-   Toronto Raptors (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/)
-   -   Why don't these idiots get that... (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/why-dont-these-idiots-get-11915.html)

gabe91 12-01-2009 11:58 PM

Why don't these idiots get that...
 
As a player, your job is to help out your teammate when he gets beat (especially at the fucking paint) WITHOUT FEAR that you're leaving your man open, because ANOTHER PLAYER WILL COVER FOR YOU.

This is Triano's system, it's good, but the fucking players are sticking to their own man when other guys get beat.

One play in the first quarter, Bosh got beat, and by the time Andrea fucking realized, Jose was already dribbling the ball up the court.

This isn't about athletic ability, or even basketball ability.

This is called WAKE THE FUCK UP

Outbound 12-02-2009 09:34 AM

I agree. I think the team takes the small yellow bus to each game at this point. Banana is not a starter and never will be a starter, doesn't have the brains period.

kia4ever 12-02-2009 10:25 AM

honestly our team at time lacks basic basketball fundementals. I think that's because of the Europeans who are honestly talented but have never gone through the US highschool and college system that stresses fundementals before anything else. On other teams where there is only a few key european pieces like the Spurs, Mavericks the American players could pick up for the slack and there could be success but when your half your key players are europeans the problem becomes much more severe. Our team makes basic mistakes and frankly it's not up to an NBA coach to teach basics.

'trane 12-02-2009 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kia4ever (Post 282419)
honestly our team at time lacks basic basketball fundementals. I think that's because of the Europeans who are honestly talented but have never gone through the US highschool and college system that stresses fundementals before anything else. On other teams where there is only a few key european pieces like the Spurs, Mavericks the American players could pick up for the slack and there could be success but when your half your key players are europeans the problem becomes much more severe. Our team makes basic mistakes and frankly it's not up to an NBA coach to teach basics.

i can't believe i am reading this. it has been said for years that european players may not come with the flash and athleticism that american high school and college players have, but that in europe fundamental basketball is taught from an early age. all players develop ball handling, passing and shooting skills and a fundamental grasp of offensive and defensive philosophies. that's why you see so many european big men with good hands and so many american big men that can only rebound and dunk.

it is clear to me that defense is lacking in many european players - perhaps because of the different nature of the game compared to in north america (more zone defenses, fewer stars, more team play) - but the broad fundamental skills tend to be stronger in europeans and international players than in american ones. there are few one trick ponies coming from overseas.

RAPMAN 12-02-2009 10:47 AM

In the Euroleague and the Olympics, you can hide bad defensive players in zone defenses. In the NBA, if your a bad defensive player, you will be exposed!

TORaptor4Ever 12-02-2009 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe91 (Post 282262)
As a player, your job is to help out your teammate when he gets beat (especially at the fucking paint) WITHOUT FEAR that you're leaving your man open, because ANOTHER PLAYER WILL COVER FOR YOU.

This is Triano's system, it's good, but the fucking players are sticking to their own man when other guys get beat.

One play in the first quarter, Bosh got beat, and by the time Andrea fucking realized, Jose was already dribbling the ball up the court.

This isn't about athletic ability, or even basketball ability.

This is called WAKE THE FUCK UP


GREAT frigging post.

I agree with 'trane's post above too though.....

.... I just have no idea why Bargs looks so lost out there. : |

Superjudge 12-02-2009 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe91 (Post 282262)
As a player, your job is to help out your teammate when he gets beat (especially at the fucking paint) WITHOUT FEAR that you're leaving your man open, because ANOTHER PLAYER WILL COVER FOR YOU.

This is Triano's system, it's good, but the fucking players are sticking to their own man when other guys get beat.

One play in the first quarter, Bosh got beat, and by the time Andrea fucking realized, Jose was already dribbling the ball up the court.

This isn't about athletic ability, or even basketball ability.

This is called WAKE THE FUCK UP

I dont disagree.

There is no trust,

No intensity as a result.

jrob23 12-02-2009 11:06 AM

honestly i think that communication is the biggest flaw on D

there is no communication at all

great example that Leo mentioned last night was when Hedo called a switch w/ Bargs and Bargs just kept trying to chase his man

something so simple, if done properly throughout a game, would reduce a lot of the easy points that we allow, hopefully it'll develop soon but honestly i can't see that happening, too much talk too little action.

jrob23 12-02-2009 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAPMAN (Post 282426)
In the Euroleague and the Olympics, you can hide bad defensive players in zone defenses. In the NBA, if your a bad defensive player, you will be exposed!

This >

nathanapes 12-02-2009 11:17 AM

Y doesn't bosh just yell at them, like KG does.

lonewolfpoet 12-02-2009 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanapes (Post 282453)
Y doesn't bosh just yell at them, like KG does.

Because Bosh is not a leader and KG is.

Dutches 12-02-2009 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonewolfpoet (Post 282484)
Because Bosh is not a leader and KG is.

KG is also an asshole. That helps.

lonewolfpoet 12-02-2009 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutches (Post 282487)
KG is also an asshole. That helps.

He is also tough and won't accept mediocre effort from his teammates.

Claudius 12-02-2009 02:56 PM

Primarily because you're not supposed to help out every single time your man is beat because it leaves open a shooter (or someone). That's why these 'idiots' don't help. Help defence is only really useful when you're trapping someone or double teaming, not when you've been beat cleanly. Then, you're just covering for someone else's mistakes.

The only time someone should really help is if they see the guy attacking the rim one of the post players should come it and try to get the charge or commit a hard foul. But simply picking up the man because he got beat shouldn't happen.

Again, I've said it before and I'll say it again, defence is all about personal pride. You need to stop the man, not anyone else. It's YOUR job.

TORaptor4Ever 12-02-2009 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 282577)
Primarily because you're not supposed to help out every single time your man is beat because it leaves open a shooter (or someone). That's why these 'idiots' don't help. Help defence is only really useful when you're trapping someone or double teaming, not when you've been beat cleanly. Then, you're just covering for someone else's mistakes.

The only time someone should really help is if they see the guy attacking the rim one of the post players should come it and try to get the charge or commit a hard foul. But simply picking up the man because he got beat shouldn't happen.

Again, I've said it before and I'll say it again, defence is all about personal pride. You need to stop the man, not anyone else. It's YOUR job.

I understand your point C.... but that simple fact of the matter is this....

No amount of coaching is going to turn Hedo in Shane Battier.

No amount of coaching is going to turn Jose into Rondo.

These players have limitations. Thus, the team has to either

a) learn to play and adapt (which means covering when someone's man gets beat)

or

b) trade these players for ones that are better defensively

Claudius 12-02-2009 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 282637)
I understand your point C.... but that simple fact of the matter is this....

No amount of coaching is going to turn Hedo in Shane Battier.

No amount of coaching is going to turn Jose into Rondo.

These players have limitations. Thus, the team has to either

a) learn to play and adapt (which means covering when someone's man gets beat)

or

b) trade these players for ones that are better defensively

No, what that means is that we're not capable of playing man to man defence and why we've been doing it is beyond me.

What we should do is go to more of a soft-zone or man-zone to hide the limitations of our defenders. It's a smart strategy. Also, we need to force the play more to the touchlines, which is something that can be taught. Too many times we're forcing the guy into the middle where he can create opportunities instead of placing the guy between you and one of the touchlines where his options are limited.

This is the NBA, helping on defence is ridiculous.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24