Why can't Jose come off the bench?? - Page 4
Old 03-26-2012, 02:28 PM   #61 (permalink)
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No I dont realize they take "good good chances, and they win and make sweet passes at the right time"

Anyway...I'd rather have more assists and a lower assist then turnover ration then 6ppg from the 1 spot.

Turnovers lead to points against, assists lead to points for ... what would you like?

As a starter bayless is averaging around 18ppg, not 6ppg. And the main point is developing him, why would you want Calderon to get us a couple more wins and lower our lottery chances? unless you're still trying to make the playoffs..
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:29 PM   #62 (permalink)
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There were so many stupidly wrong things with this post, it really made my skin crawl. I really, just really don't understand how you, a canadian, can be so ignorant. In your mind, are all great pg black outside of nash and kidd? jeez..


What, what are you talking about? What is wrong with my post? How is my post not Canadian, and what did you mean about black? wtf...
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:36 PM   #63 (permalink)
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As a starter bayless is averaging around 18ppg, not 6ppg. And the main point is developing him, why would you want Calderon to get us a couple more wins and lower our lottery chances? unless you're still trying to make the playoffs..
At some point, you may want to realize that Bayless has developed. This is it. He is a pretty good combo-guard, but he lacks the size to start at 2 and lacks the smarts/decision-making to start at 1. He will, at best, be a career sixth man. By all means, start him for the rest of the season as soon as he comes back from the injury - Spanish national team, having lost Rubio, will be eternally grateful for a fresher Caldy @ the Olympics. However, if you believe that BC or Casey are seriously considering Bayless as a long-term starter at PG.... well... I believe you are mistaken.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:57 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Oh my god,

did 2 people actually say in this thread that harris and jameer nelson are better than Jose!? Yuk, i feel sick.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:30 PM   #65 (permalink)
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At some point, you may want to realize that Bayless has developed. This is it. He is a pretty good combo-guard, but he lacks the size to start at 2 and lacks the smarts/decision-making to start at 1. He will, at best, be a career sixth man. By all means, start him for the rest of the season as soon as he comes back from the injury - Spanish national team, having lost Rubio, will be eternally grateful for a fresher Caldy @ the Olympics. However, if you believe that BC or Casey are seriously considering Bayless as a long-term starter at PG.... well... I believe you are mistaken.

Yes start him for the rest of the season, not saying he is the incumbent number 1 of the future, but with 20 more games started we can see where he really is at and if he really is consistent as he has shown as a starter. Calderon makes no sense anymore, if anything we wan't to lose games. And who knows, if he Bayless is good enough as a PG that allows us to do so much more. And he has the smarts and capability of learning good decision making no?
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:38 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Yes start him for the rest of the season, not saying he is the incumbent number 1 of the future, but with 20 more games started we can see where he really is at and if he really is consistent as he has shown as a starter. Calderon makes no sense anymore, if anything we wan't to lose games. And who knows, if he Bayless is good enough as a PG that allows us to do so much more. And he has the smarts and capability of learning good decision making no?
You can't start Bayless, he's injured. Mike makesa good point though, I think Bayless ceiling has been mostly revealed
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:44 PM   #67 (permalink)
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You can't start Bayless, he's injured. Mike makesa good point though, I think Bayless ceiling has been mostly revealed

Yep, decent defender, shoot first PG/Combo guard, as a starting PG is probably an 17ppg/7apg/4reb player.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:17 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Yep, decent defender, shoot first PG/Combo guard, as a starting PG is probably an 17ppg/7apg/4reb player.
lol.... ok. Surely you mean over a 15 game window.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:20 PM   #69 (permalink)
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lol.... ok. Surely you mean over a 15 game window.
surely. I mean, how else would his ceiling mostly be revealed?
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:24 PM   #70 (permalink)
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surely. I mean, how else would his ceiling mostly be revealed?
Well played! Jerkstore is the line, I'm going with jerkstore!

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Old 03-27-2012, 06:13 PM   #71 (permalink)
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You can't start Bayless, he's injured. Mike makesa good point though, I think Bayless ceiling has been mostly revealed
Bayless' ceiling is 18 ppg, 4 rpg, 7 apg (he gets these types of numbers whenever he gets starter minutes). So no, he's not even close to reaching his ceiling.

Last edited by baller13; 03-27-2012 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:16 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Bayless' ceiling is 19 ppg, 4 rpg, 7 apg (he gets these types of numbers whenever he gets starter minutes). So no, he's not even close to reaching his ceiling.
You seriously think he can do better than those numbers?
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:16 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Bayless' ceiling is 19 ppg, 4 rpg, 7 apg (he gets these types of numbers whenever he gets starter minutes). So no, he's not even close to reaching his ceiling.
those numbers would drop if he had to play the whole season.... look at Lin.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:18 PM   #74 (permalink)
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You seriously think he can do better than those numbers?
I'm saying those are the numbers he'd likely put up if he were given Calderon or Derozan type minutes (33-36 mpg).
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:21 PM   #75 (permalink)
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those numbers would drop if he had to play the whole season.... look at Lin.
Lin is now playing with Carmelo and Amare. There's only one all-star caliber player on the Raps (who's a big man, not a black hole wing like Carmelo), not two.

Also, Lin's numbers dropped because of Melo (if Carmelo got injured again, there'd be another Linsanity), not because he just can't put up the numbers anymore.

Last edited by baller13; 03-27-2012 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:23 PM   #76 (permalink)
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And he has the smarts and capability of learning good decision making no?
If you ask me - no. It appears a skill that the players are either born with or don't possess, especially at the point. The decisions need to be made so fast, it becomes almost instinctive and thus is impossible to learn or teach. It's not a mechanical skill, like shooting. It's more like rebounding, where, in addition to effort and good fundamentals, one needs great instincts/anticipation.

Bayless simply does not think like a point guard, IMO.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:41 PM   #77 (permalink)
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born with?
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:50 PM   #78 (permalink)
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I disagree that court vision cannot be taught and improved on. A lot of players improve in that area with more experience.

I think that it's just very difficult to teach, since almost the only way to teach it is to play full 5 on 5 games with the pupil as the point guard.

I think that it might be possible to use video games to improve court vision, since you don't need ten players to play a video game, and you can play for a long time before getting tired. Though, I don't know if the overhead perspective would be as effective as a first person perspective. Does the latest iteration of 2k support first person perspective yet? I haven't played that series since 2k2.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:37 AM   #79 (permalink)
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born with?
Pretty much, at least as far as "being born into the league" is concerned. What I mean is that the point guard usually comes into the league known for his passing vs. developing the skill while in the league. Same with rebounding and power players.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:45 AM   #80 (permalink)
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so not 'born with' at all, then.

if we establish that it is something learned, we would have to allow that some people learn in different ways and at different paces, and that some people come in to the league at different life stages. i would think a 19 year old pg is different than a 23 or 24 year old pg coming in to the league, for example.

and it seems that there are guys who have learned this in the nba, or at least have gotten much better at it. billups comes to mind. so does jrue holiday. ramon session in la is showing us that a guy can play quite differently just by a change in role and team.

i'd love to know the difference between jose at age 19 and jose at age 28 or so. how much did he learn i that time? how much did he learn in teh nba after getting here.

i just think it's pretty odd to state flatly that this can't be learned past the age of 19 or so.
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