Who will be the Raptors biggest disappointment this season? - Page 4

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View Poll Results: Who will be the Raptors biggest disappointment this season?
Chris Bosh 3 7.69%
Jose Calderon 4 10.26%
Jermaine O'Neal 5 12.82%
Anthony Parker 3 7.69%
Jamario Moon 2 5.13%
Roko Ukic 12 30.77%
Jason Kapono 0 0%
Andrea Bargnani 7 17.95%
Sam Mitchell 3 7.69%
Bryan Colangelo 0 0%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-27-2008, 02:16 PM   #61 (permalink)
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name a coach that had such a brutally unreliable bunch of guys going in.

Toronto didn't underachieve Thriller.

You were surprised they lost?
The team has done surprising well last 2 years in spite of Smitch.
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:23 PM   #62 (permalink)
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name a coach that had such a brutally unreliable bunch of guys going in.

Toronto didn't underachieve Thriller.

You were surprised they lost?
Why did Smitch change the starting lineup in game 1 of the playoffs to a lineup he had never used before besides maybe in that Chicago game at the end of the year(I'm not even fully sure he did in that game)? And when it was a complete failure, why did he go with it again in the 2nd game? You guys can keep coming back with pointless remarks of WOW WE'VE DONE WELL IN SPITE OF SMITCH and all of that trying to mock me yet you cant fully comprehend or answer why he continued to push one of the worst coaching substitutions in the history of the sport not once but twice. Go ahead Snoochie.
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:30 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Why did Smitch change the starting lineup in game 1 of the playoffs to a lineup he had never used before besides maybe in that Chicago game at the end of the year(I'm not even fully sure he did in that game)? And when it was a complete failure, why did he go with it again in the 2nd game? You guys can keep coming back with pointless remarks of WOW WE'VE DONE WELL IN SPITE OF SMITCH and all of that trying to mock me yet you cant fully comprehend or answer why he continued to push one of the worst coaching substitutions in the history of the sport not once but twice. Go ahead Snoochie.
Dude, Im not mocking you I agree.

You cant argue the fact that a team with the Smitch as a coach making the playoffs 2 years in a row and having a winning record 2 years in a row is actually pretty good.
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:35 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Then who is a good coach?
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:40 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Then who is a good coach?
Pops, Coach K, Byron Scott is pretty good, Nelson and the greatest ever is Wooden.
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:48 PM   #66 (permalink)
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you're both a bit off base, period.

The reasons I would rathe rnot get into, but honestly, wtf.

Worst decisions ever? Says who? You????? Fuck off man, why are ou the authority. If they win that game is he a genius? Or Lucky?

You need to get outta your element a bit man, experieince a bit more in the sporting world to truly comphrehend what is going on.

I have never touted Mitchell as a great coach, and I'm not now. But your assertations that he is hoorible are just out to fucking lunch, and simply wrong.

Why did he put a guy in at three?

Why not?

He was equally unable to stop Hedu, just like the other two guys.

Just as Bosh was unable to be a presense in the paint.

Just as the raps as a whole gave the game to Howard by not attacking him.... something the COACH begged them all year to do.

Just like the team collectively played an intensity close to that of a pre-season friendly, and didn't come out fighting, scratching and clawing. Just as the COACH asked them to do all year, only to have mr. wonderful CB4 publicly oppose the notion that playing tough and a bit dirty in the trenches was a good idea.

And thats just a short list.

But hey... whatever floats your boat kid.
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:18 PM   #67 (permalink)
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andrea Bargnani got 7 votes?
come on guys
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:18 PM   #68 (permalink)
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I dont base my opinions on starting Dre at the 3, with some training I think he would work best at it.

What really shows his lack of aptitude as a coach is his out of time out offensive and defensive schemes as well as his in game adjustments, both are non existent.
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:27 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Why did he put a guy in at three?

Why not?

He was equally unable to stop Hedu, just like the other two guys.
Considering we were down like 18 after the 1st qtr in game one, does starting him in the 3rd and in game 2 not seem absolutely horrendous to you? There was obviously a lot of other factors why we lost, but having to come back from double digit leads in both games and having to play nearly perfect in the 2nd half to overcome a double digit deficit due to a horrible substitution is unacceptable in my book and something I have not seen any other coach even come close to trying in my time in watching the NBA.

I'd rather analyze Smitchs moves than look at the teams record individually, because in the argument in whether Smitch is a good coach or not I dont think it should just be determined on whether we sucked one year or were good one year as the coach really doesnt have THAT much of a factor on the wins and losses as a whole in the regular season. We may lose a couple more or win a couple more due to coaching but we'd still be in the same win range, but I'd rather look at the big picture and see where hes improved and where he hasnt and judge him from that, and IMO I just dont trust him especially come playoff time to make the right adjustments and the right moves to help get us to that next level. Coaching does play a much bigger factor in a 7 game series and I dont think hes our man when we do take that next step as a team.

Our offence has gotten better and had more dimensions to it since his rookie year with more cutting and off ball screens and such, but our D still hasnt been in sync and the player rotations on help D after the 2nd pass just were bad, it seemed like the players didnt know where to be, and a lot of that is on him if it continues to happen over the entire year.
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:30 PM   #70 (permalink)
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What really shows his lack of aptitude as a coach is his out of time out offensive and defensive schemes as well as his in game adjustments, both are non existent.
Well thats #1 obviously is his coaching manouvers especially his in game adjustments like I've stated a million times over the last couple of years, but the Bargnani move in my mind put him over the top as one of the worst coaches I've seen based on that move and his stubbornness to go back to it after it blew up in his face, trying to prove he was right in game 2 and that he was some sort of genius instead of making the smart choice of going back to our normal starting lineup. You cant try and play hero and try to make a name for yourself by going all in with shit when your season is on the brink and you've seen your move not even come close to working the first time. He did, and we were so close but not able to fully recover in game 2. I still believe we would have won that game if he made the sane choice and had Moon start in the 2nd game as we totally outplayed them in that game with Bargs not at the 3 spot.
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:38 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Jesus - there were double digit deficits! The entire playoffs were about 20-ish point swings. I don't see huge criticisms of Phil Jackson blowing huge leads, or Rivers doing the same on multiple occasions, or D'Antoni doing the same thing, just to name a few - and these were guys with a lot more on the line and a lot more to play around with.

Remind me what the great Don Nelson managed to do Snooch. Someone tell me that Pops never made changes to the starting lineup and rotation specifically for the playoffs.

What Sam is missing is some more success, particularly in the playoffs. Otherwise the usual keying in on his personality, and putting a microscope on every past mistake will dominate the discussion as it does with pretty much any coach.
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:03 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Pop never started a player who didnt play the position all year at that position all of a sudden in the playoffs, Jackson the same, and Rivers never stuck Brian Scalabrine in there at SF when Ray Allen was struggling which would have moved Pierce to SG.

At least when Pop puts Manu at 6th man he puts in a guy who can actually play the SG position and has had experience starting there before during the season in there, not a guy who has been played at a completely different position all year trying to get him accustomed to that position then completely change it by making him guard the perimeter and play the 3.

Sam tried to be a hero, failed, then tried it again to prove he was genius, and failed harder.
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:36 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Jesus - there were double digit deficits! The entire playoffs were about 20-ish point swings. I don't see huge criticisms of Phil Jackson blowing huge leads, or Rivers doing the same on multiple occasions, or D'Antoni doing the same thing, just to name a few - and these were guys with a lot more on the line and a lot more to play around with.

Remind me what the great Don Nelson managed to do Snooch. Someone tell me that Pops never made changes to the starting lineup and rotation specifically for the playoffs.

What Sam is missing is some more success, particularly in the playoffs. Otherwise the usual keying in on his personality, and putting a microscope on every past mistake will dominate the discussion as it does with pretty much any coach.
1. The team didnt blow huge leads, they gave them away......

Games Wins Losses %
2. 29 seasons 2234 1280 954 . 573

Coach of a 57 and 60 win Dallas team, coach of GSW who played arguably the most exciting basketball the last couple of years, credited with inventing small ball, 3rd coach in history to win 1000 games.

3. And what Smitch ids missing is the left and frontal lobe of his brain.
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:51 PM   #74 (permalink)
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The only guy I saw that was able to make his team more than just a jumpshooting team in the face of the zone, was Byron Scott, and he was still pretty dependent on hot shooting.

Sam was maybe too happy to see Orlando be a shooting team. I would have thought that would work out ok. Orlando seemed to be pretty happy to have the Raptors firing shots as well. When all was said and done it was a guy like Nelson getting hot that finished Toronto off. If you looked at the matchup ahead of time, if you knew Orlando would rely on Jameer carrying them past us, then you'd have to be pretty happy.

Now I just don't see Sam as a guy that tries to be a hero. He has his principles and he sticks to them. He can be accused of being stubborn about that. He spent all season trying to get guys to play above their ability. But I think I would rather see that, then have him be too flexible with regards to what he wants to do. I don't think the guy is settling for mediocrity, regardless of what he's looking at with his personnel. He keeps the team moving towards where he sees them needing to go, and I would say that is more important to him than being a hero and winning a playoff series at this point in the team's development. And I would say that is why he is still here. It's not about last year's playoff matchup, or about him, but the team going ahead from there.
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:55 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Snooch - I was reffering to last year. Mr. Nelson had a pretty good team no? But he is a pretty good example of a coach who prefers straying from principles in order to win with smoke and mirrors. And he ultimately didn't achieve much.

And pretty much every team in the playoffs that came back from huge leads, had given them away to start with. 20 -point swings were everywhere. If the game was within single digits to begin with, there was a good chance that it was due to a team recovering from a big deficit to start with.
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:57 PM   #76 (permalink)
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bah.

LX why bother.

All people wanna do is cry about the coach.

they sit in thier living room, far, far away fromt he real action in practice, on the floor, in the room, in the huddle and they make jugements based on absolutely jack squat for information.

It's fucking comical.

Maybe we cannot endorse him for the same reasons, I'll surrender that much, however the diffference is this, we aren't making threads talking about how great sam is, were just responding to the people out there acting as if they know more then they do. I can say this, I have seen practice footage, lots of it, I have heard Sam talk, on many occasions, and I have heard him in practice. He know's plenty. And if anything, his weakness is finding a way to get the door knobs he coaches to execute a simple fucking plan. is that on him? maybe. Is it on the players? Maybe.
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:05 PM   #77 (permalink)
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You are all idiots.

A: Do I know more than Sam Mitchell about basketball?

No

B: Do I have every right to bitch and complain when I see something I don't agree with.

Yes.


C: Does Sam suck balls at coaching

Yes.
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:06 PM   #78 (permalink)
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bah.

LX why bother.

All people wanna do is cry about the coach.

they sit in thier living room, far, far away fromt he real action in practice, on the floor, in the room, in the huddle and they make jugements based on absolutely jack squat for information.

It's fucking comical.

Maybe we cannot endorse him for the same reasons, I'll surrender that much, however the diffference is this, we aren't making threads talking about how great sam is, were just responding to the people out there acting as if they know more then they do. I can say this, I have seen practice footage, lots of it, I have heard Sam talk, on many occasions, and I have heard him in practice. He know's plenty. And if anything, his weakness is finding a way to get the door knobs he coaches to execute a simple fucking plan. is that on him? maybe. Is it on the players? Maybe.

I do agree with that and part of the reason, as I have said in the past, that the Smitch runs one offensive play is to drill it into the teams brains. No matter how tired, worked up or whatever a player is they willl not forget the pick and roll. Just like in Semi Pro with the "puke"

And I also think that Sam can get alot out of his players.

However, I feel Sams reason for doing this is because he knows not what else to do.

AP was a Euroleague MVP, Jose is a very intelligent player, Bosh knows whats up, Rasho, Kaps etc are quite intelligent players. The only thick heads on the team is Joey, Moon and Hump, mabey Bargs. So why cant he design at least another couple of schemes, Im sure that for the most part the team would get them, at least the important player....


edit: I will be the first to eat some Crow and Humble Pie if Sam can prove me wrong, but I have a feeling that us and the media will be calling for his head 30 games in.
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:08 PM   #79 (permalink)
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omg thriller's angrier then normal!!!

my vote goes to JO. i still believe that he will anchor our defense, but as far as him becoming our second option and post threat, i don't see it. i'm expecting flash backs of antonio davis all-star year with him.
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:10 PM   #80 (permalink)
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omg thriller's angrier then normal!!!

my vote goes to JO. i still believe that he will anchor our defense, but as far as him becoming our second option and post threat, i don't see it. i'm expecting flash backs of antonio davis all-star year with him.
I'll take it.
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