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Old 10-17-2011, 09:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
With all due respect the Mavs didn't exactly have a cakewalk to the finals.... so they weren't exactly a bad team.

They beat the Spurs (best record in the WC)

They swept the Lakers (defending champs)

They beat the Thunder (with the league's top scorer)


They were a VERY good team that finally figured out how surround Dirk with the appropriate talent. The acquisitions of Chandler and Marion were HUGE for them and made them a much better team than they had ever been before. Couple that with a core that had been in place for a few years and an established system (plus added motivation from what happened in 2006) and you have a recipe for success.

Personally, I think that it would have been a monumental upset if the HEAT had won it all, considering that was their first year together.
In a star's league where the NBA clearly is hoping it's top stars make it deep, I'm not surprised at all...... It would have been a colossal failure had they not made it that far given their multiple championship hoopla during their preseason championship parade.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:49 PM   #22 (permalink)
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In a star's league where the NBA clearly is hoping it's top stars make it deep, I'm not surprised at all...... It would have been a colossal failure had they not made it that far given their multiple championship hoopla during their preseason championship parade.
Well, let's be serious.... Lebron was an idiot for making those statements to begin with.

I thought they would have had more problems with BOS and I certainly thought that CHI could have taken them (before the series began). Both of those teams were well-coached and had some established stars and good systems.

It was definitely a testament to the greatness of those 3 stars that they could overcome the odds and make it to the finals (IMO).
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Well, let's be serious.... Lebron was an idiot for making those statements to begin with.

I thought they would have had more problems with BOS and I certainly thought that CHI could have taken them (before the series began). Both of those teams were well-coached and had some established stars and good systems.

It was definitely a testament to the greatness of those 3 stars that they could overcome the odds and make it to the finals (IMO).
I agree, they were foolish to make those claims.....

Boston was clearly dealing with injuries and really missed Perkins.... that's a lot of change in a short time that usually never leads to success..... so Boston was primed for an upset. Chicago got a little ahead of themselves... but yeah, they did well to unseat them. They really just choked in the finals while Dirk rose to another level most didn't think he had..... it's a testament to Dirk in how he overcame the NBA's darling star team and it's pretty brutal how Miami's stars wilted in the clutch.

They should be congratulated for getting there, but not celebrated for parading the entire time before their expected outcome was achieved..... when the finals were announced, it was obvious to most which team was the heavy favourite.
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Old 10-18-2011, 12:18 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm not sure what you meant by this (or if you simply put it out there for reference), but I think it goes with my point. This article is dated June 7th, and the Mavericks won the 2011 title on June 12th.


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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
With all due respect the Mavs didn't exactly have a cakewalk to the finals.... so they weren't exactly a bad team.

They beat the Spurs (best record in the WC)

They swept the Lakers (defending champs)

They beat the Thunder (with the league's top scorer)


They were a VERY good team that finally figured out how surround Dirk with the appropriate talent. The acquisitions of Chandler and Marion were HUGE for them and made them a much better team than they had ever been before. Couple that with a core that had been in place for a few years and an established system (plus added motivation from what happened in 2006) and you have a recipe for success.

Personally, I think that it would have been a monumental upset if the HEAT had won it all, considering that was their first year together.
Oh, I never implied they had an easy road to the Finals! On the contrary, I feel they had one of the most difficult playoff runs a Championship team has ever had! OTOH, the Lebitch Heat's road was easy, what w/Boston showing NONE of the grit they showed in their 2008 and 2010 playoff runs; it has nothing to do w/moving Kendrick Perkins, and everything to do with simply not showing up - I thought Boston was gonna win that series, as they were one of the few teams that could compete w/the Lebitch Heat's talent. I thought the 76ers didn't deserve to be in the playoffs and Chicago, more specifically Derrick Rose, was way over his head.

-Correction: They beat a Trailblazers team w/Brandon Roy at a fraction of his normal game, in the 1st Rd. The Grizzlies (without Rudy Gay!) beat the Spurs!

-I absolutely agree about how key Tyson & Matrix are to the Mavs. However, remember that both players were very much overlooked by other teams, to the point that some of their former teams were happy to be done with them. Compare that w/the Lebitch Heat's starpower; that's the point I was getting at.

-Only Jason Terry & Dirk Nowitski were on that 05-06 Maverick team. Granted, that's their franchise player and main backcourt scorer, thus a big soul of the team. I see what you mean. However I should point out that Jason Kidd was literally floating from 08-10. It was only this past season where he really started making big plays defensively again. Granted of course, the system was made better by Tyson & Brendan manning the pivot & being flanked by Matrix on the wing, but the fact remains he was doing nothing of note in the years prior to 10-11, where he continually made awsome plays as a roleplayer down the stretch of close games.

I disagree on your last point. With the superstar talent the Heat had (man for man, their big 3 is better than the Celtic's big 3; Rajon Rondo was the difference in why the Celtics pwned Team Steroid in the regular season), they're the clear favorites no matter who they faced in whatever stage of the playoffs. They had already worked out their issues after their rocky start. The issues that they didn't fully work out, they have no excuse for: their superior talent makes them have a much more workable margin for error, significantly trumping the margin the Mavs had to work with.

I don't buy the "It's only their 1st year together" excuse, dude. Their superstar trio coupled with an ace young coach & ace roleplayers around them meant they had the biggest margin for error, way ahead of the competition. IMO the "It's only their 1st year together" is a bad excuse in any situation (especially the playoffs), and is a COMPLETE cop-out when speaking of the amount of talent that Team Steroid had. EDIT: But of course, to be fair, Lebitch always has excuses. I shoulda remembered to mention that earlier. Apologies.

That being said, it's undeniable the Mavericks had one of the most special runs in playoff/Finals history! Thus far my favourite Championship team of all-time!

Last edited by bladeofBG; 10-18-2011 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:18 AM   #25 (permalink)
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They should be congratulated for getting there, but not celebrated for parading the entire time before their expected outcome was achieved..... when the finals were announced, it was obvious to most which team was the heavy favourite.
I think that most "casual fans" would have picked the Heat without hesitation but I didn't see anything that would have suggested that the Mavs would be an easy out (or that the odds wouldn't be even).

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I don't buy the "It's only their 1st year together" excuse, dude. Their superstar trio coupled with an ace young coach & ace roleplayers around them meant they had the biggest margin for error, way ahead of the competition. IMO the "It's only their 1st year together" is a bad excuse in any situation (especially the playoffs), and is a COMPLETE cop-out when speaking of the amount of talent that Team Steroid had. EDIT: But of course, to be fair, Lebitch always has excuses. I shoulda remembered to mention that earlier. Apologies.

That being said, it's undeniable the Mavericks had one of the most special runs in playoff/Finals history! Thus far my favourite Championship team of all-time!
You may not buy it, but think about it..... championship teams are rarely (if ever) built in one season. It takes time. The Lakers... The Spurs...The Pistons.... The Mavs... all of these teams spent at least a couple of seasons pulling things together before they won it all. Only example I can think of (when it comes to a quick assembly) is prob. the Celts.

Remember too that the vast majority of fans said that MIA only had a "Big 2" and that Bosh wasn't a superstar.

Also said that they had no post game to speak of (and they were right) and that that would hurt them.

Still think they did a nice job of overcoming that.

The Mavs were great to watch though, without question. A true TEAM in every sense of the word (taking nothing away from Dirk's greatness).
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:38 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Remember too that the vast majority of fans said that MIA only had a "Big 2" and that Bosh wasn't a superstar.
VAST Majority of fans? I heard some media guys say that, but how do we know it's a VAST majority of fans?
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:24 PM   #27 (permalink)
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VAST Majority of fans? I heard some media guys say that, but how do we know it's a VAST majority of fans?
i'd agree that the majority of toronto fans were dismissive of Chris Bosh as a franchise player type talent.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:35 PM   #28 (permalink)
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i'd agree that the majority of toronto fans were dismissive of Chris Bosh as a franchise player type talent.
definitely..... the media hyped him like he was somewhere even close to Amare but we RF members knew better! Holla atcha boy Torrap!
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:59 PM   #30 (permalink)
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definitely..... the media hyped him like he was somewhere even close to Amare but we RF members knew better! Holla atcha boy Torrap!

He's in the Amare category imo....neither is a franchise player but are very good second or third option.
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:27 PM   #31 (permalink)
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He's in the Amare category imo....neither is a franchise player but are very good second or third option.
he's close to Amare I guess.... but he's closer to Boozer.
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:54 PM   #32 (permalink)
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he's close to Amare I guess.... but he's closer to Boozer.
I put all three in the same category imo.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:02 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Basketball is my favourite sport but I always thought the NBA did a lousy job of entertaining me. Its not basketball its a show IMO and I was never big on it besides the playoffs. They could go away all season I dont' care. I'm looking forward to NCAA realignment (although I will miss the big east powerhouse).

I have NFL, Soccer and a sprinkle of baseball to entertain me. So for all I car Stern and Co. could take the NBA out till next year.
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:51 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
You may not buy it, but think about it..... championship teams are rarely (if ever) built in one season. It takes time. The Lakers... The Spurs...The Pistons.... The Mavs... all of these teams spent at least a couple of seasons pulling things together before they won it all. Only example I can think of (when it comes to a quick assembly) is prob. the Celts.

Remember too that the vast majority of fans said that MIA only had a "Big 2" and that Bosh wasn't a superstar.

Also said that they had no post game to speak of (and they were right) and that that would hurt them.

Still think they did a nice job of overcoming that.

The Mavs were great to watch though, without question. A true TEAM in every sense of the word (taking nothing away from Dirk's greatness).
I rquoted & replied to you in what I felt was a more appropriate thread, here:
NBA FINALS: Dallas Mavericks defeat the Miami Heat 4-2
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:29 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I put all three in the same category imo.
i agreed with you at 1st when you said Bosh is in the amare category, but can't agree with you or carp when u say boozer is in that category, certainly not on last season. Fair enough if you're talking over time, but to me boozer looks spent, maybe if he left bulls he could re-energise himself, but who'll take that contract!?

to me Bosh is most similar to aldridge. Would be fascinating to see what aldridge would've done on miami last season wouldn't it? Both in terms of what would happen to his numbers and would his personality have made him do worse/better/same as bosh. was also surprised to see that bosh's reb numbers were similar to stoud and aldridge was 0.5rpg better than either of them.

i really like aldridge myself, but amare does have that extra explosiveness, all 3 are close in ability and effect on their team for me. Then u could sretch the debate and include the more traditional PFs like love and griffin (ok, the dunks aren't traditional! but the rest of his play?)
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