Who needs America when we have the world?
Old 08-06-2009, 11:04 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Understandably we have a hard time holding on to stars that are American born. So my argument is why stress over them when players from other countries are more then happy to play here? I'm not saying boycot american players or not to try and resign Bosh but here are a few points for thought.

1) Internationally, Basketball is getting bigger than ever which in turn is starting to produce better and better players worldwide. Just looking at the NBA now compared to a few years back it's already very aparent. In the years to come its inevitible that more and more international stars will rise. At this momemt a USA vs The World would still favour the US but that WILL change.

2) We have entire countries watching our games in support of their home born players (Small market my a##!) Which should lead to jersey sales and so fourth.

All in all what I'm really saying is that I'm very optimistic about our future. International players are getting better and we've positioned ourselves as a city that welcomes their talent and being able to provide their families with a place they can feel at home.

International Championship team by 2013.
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Old 08-06-2009, 11:05 AM   #2 (permalink)
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nice post ping. welcome to rf!
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Old 08-06-2009, 11:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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thanks. Been reading for quite some time, thought i'd join in on the action.
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Old 08-06-2009, 11:11 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Its true that many international players will prefer playing in Toronto than in Atlanta, Sacramento and company. But most will still prefer to play in th Lakers or Knicks if they can.
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Old 08-06-2009, 11:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
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hahaha, good first post.

I don't know man, I think the world would have a GREAT shot at winning now....

(say the next part like Don King) The best of the rest outside the US would pass the test!
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Old 08-06-2009, 11:23 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Good post on the euro factor....can't say i disagree with that...

I really think this anti-Canadian thing is being overplayed though(not just by you...in general). We're a young franchise and yes TmAc and Wince bolted...but in Wince's case he signed a big extension to stay and gave the franchise a chance to become a winner...he didn't bolt at the first opportunity...and for tMaC he's just a pu$$y that needed to have a team willing to coddle him and get out of his cousin's shadow.

Not much is made when Boozer bolts from Cleveland or when Kenyon Martin leaves New Jersey. Heck Derek Fischer left LA for Utah, Grant Hill went to Phoenix...the list goes on. Pro athletes can be fickle people..they are guided by their agents and money and winning in some cases and it will always be that way.

With respect to Bosh's situation, as much as any of us are qualified to have an opinion on the subject, mine is that if we show him we can be a winner and pay him what he wants he'll stay. I think that's a reasonable opinion to have and the fact we're Canadian based has probably almost nothing to do with it(i can see the taxes being a small factor). The Jays were a prime example of this in the early 90's... everyone wanted to come play for us because we were winning, we were willing to pay them good $$ and you never heard anything bad about the franchise or city to boot. The well dried up when our success on the field faded away. It happens everyone.
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Old 08-06-2009, 12:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! View Post
I really think this anti-Canadian thing is being overplayed though(not just by you...in general). We're a young franchise and yes TmAc and Wince bolted...but in Wince's case he signed a big extension to stay and gave the franchise a chance to become a winner...he didn't bolt at the first opportunity...and for tMaC he's just a pu$$y that needed to have a team willing to coddle him and get out of his cousin's shadow.
I agree that if we were a championship contending team that players wouldn't mind playing here. But I really dont think its overplayed. Overdiscussed maybe. Your examples are backed well but what about all the other players in the league that have not played for us? We only hear about the ones that leave. Considering we have virtually no coverage in the US I think it's a safe assumption to make that players would prefer to play for a US team.
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Old 08-06-2009, 12:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I wonder why its an issue with the Raptors....

Americans play for the Blue Jays no Problem....

And every other sport in toronto for that matter.

It makes no sense, & a Canadian invented Basketball, why is the a big thing put on US players playing in Toronto?
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Old 08-06-2009, 12:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Doesn't the MLB have to salary cap as well though?

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Old 08-06-2009, 12:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Nice post but there is a little problem with only euro players cause the euro style of play is drasticly different and rookies take a little time to adjust, and its not like every veteran euro player is going to deside to come to TO so it may take longer than 2013 it will be more like 2018 hopefully not
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ping View Post
I agree that if we were a championship contending team that players wouldn't mind playing here. But I really dont think its overplayed. Overdiscussed maybe. Your examples are backed well but what about all the other players in the league that have not played for us? We only hear about the ones that leave. Considering we have virtually no coverage in the US I think it's a safe assumption to make that players would prefer to play for a US team.
I dont' think it's fair to make the leap from many US born players haven't played for Toronto to equal many US born players don't want to play in Toronto. Factors such as our team has sucked will weigh heavily on free agents regardless of their nationality. The truth is we don't know how many players would refuse an opportunity to play for the Raptors if given the chance as you have mentioned so to use that as a basis for an argument that we cannot attract/maintain US born players would not be appropriate.

The fact you agree that were we winners we wouldn't have any problem attracting players...that says the problem is we're not winners, not our geography

In the end it's just speculation on our part...we dont' know what these guys are thinking. I just think too much is made of Vince and Tmac leaving by the media and it's not really an issue of geography, but one of a lack of winning pedigree on the part of the franchise.
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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i cant say i disagree but like other before have stated, the no-one-wants-to-play-in-canada notion is overstated....if we win we get good players....the teams that all players want to play for have 1.good history 2.winning mentality 3.are willing to spend money...and if you have those 3 things you in a great position to get good players.....i personally dont think were quiet there yet.....we've only been in the league for 14 years now....and now finally, thanks to BC, we have a winning mentality and are building a good young core of players to win.....if we make it to the playoffs couple years in a row than we will attract big names....
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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.

Last edited by Apollo; 08-06-2009 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ping View Post
1) Internationally, Basketball is getting bigger than ever which in turn is starting to produce better and better players worldwide. Just looking at the NBA now compared to a few years back it's already very aparent. In the years to come its inevitible that more and more international stars will rise. At this momemt a USA vs The World would still favour the US but that WILL change.
C - Ming
PF - Duncan
SF - Turkoglu
SG - Ginobili
PG - Parker
6 - Nash
7 - Nowitzki
8 - Gasol
9 - AK47

That's a pretty damn good 9 man rotation.

10 - Calderon
11 - Bargnani
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:16 PM   #15 (permalink)
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howard
bosh
lebron
kobe
paul

wade
amare
carmelo

that's a much better one...
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
howard
bosh
lebron
kobe
paul

wade
amare
carmelo

that's a much better one...
Yes, no one is arguing that but why don't you make an 9 man rotation of international player of ten years ago and compare it to the team I just listed.
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
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it's definitely big-man heavy, but:

hakeen
sabonis
kukoc
petrovic
marciulionis

smits
schrempf
vlade

still a pretty good team, actually
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Old 08-06-2009, 02:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! View Post
I dont' think it's fair to make the leap from many US born players haven't played for Toronto to equal many US born players don't want to play in Toronto. Factors such as our team has sucked will weigh heavily on free agents regardless of their nationality. The truth is we don't know how many players would refuse an opportunity to play for the Raptors if given the chance as you have mentioned so to use that as a basis for an argument that we cannot attract/maintain US born players would not be appropriate.

The fact you agree that were we winners we wouldn't have any problem attracting players...that says the problem is we're not winners, not our geography

In the end it's just speculation on our part...we dont' know what these guys are thinking. I just think too much is made of Vince and Tmac leaving by the media and it's not really an issue of geography, but one of a lack of winning pedigree on the part of the franchise.
I totally agree with you that all we can do is speculate. It's about backing up your spectulations, that's part of the fun of this forum no?

If you look at our history, Kenny Anderson was the only idiot that publicly said he didn't want to play for a Canadian team. And I'm not saying all Americans will share his views but I'm sure what ever his reasons are there will be others that share the same. Alonzo Mourning was another player that never played for us but at least he was bright enough not to say it was because we are a canadian team if that was the case.

Geography is still a potential problem if you can only attract players by being a championship contender.

But in conclusion. I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree.

Last edited by Ping; 08-06-2009 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 08-06-2009, 02:32 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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If you look at our history, Kenny Anderson was the only idiot that publicly said he didn't want to play for a Canadian team.
steve francis, john salmons and gerald wallace as well, no?
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Old 08-06-2009, 02:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
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steve francis, john salmons and gerald wallace as well, no?
Forgot about Francis, didn't know about the other 2.
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