Who is the mystery team and does it mean for bosh
Old 06-15-2010, 12:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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If Chad ford is right, we already have a trade partner for hedu. Going by the recent rumours, it's probably Sacramento or Atlanta. At first I was skeptical of both reports, but after some thought, it's not that far fetched.

Both teams need a player like hedu. JJ is likely gone, as they won't overpay to retain him. Hedu would provide some of the things they lose (shot creating and 3 point shooting) at a fraction of the cost. They would have to unload Williams, but they would be happy to do it. Sacramento needs a SF and a veteran presence. Prince is an option, but Detroit is apparently asking for a pick swap, which is a high price.

The thing about turkoglu is that outside teams are probably looking at his body of work, which is not that bad. They could be seeing his bad year here as a bad fit, and hoping for a rebound. And at 10 million range, there aren't many players available this summer who can provide what Turk does.

If we do a trade with atlanta, I expect to see something like Marvin and jj for hedu, derozan, banks,Evans and Marco or Jack. If we draft avery, we could offer Bosh a group of jj, Andrea, marvin, bradley, Jose, Amir and maybe sign childress to mle. That's far superior to what Miami can offer, while also enabling Bosh to retain alpha dog status. In fact, that would make us and Chicago as the top 2 destinations for Bosh this summer, and his loyalty would probably give us the edge.

This would be a best case scenario, a team of:
Jose + jj + Williams + Bosh + Bargnani and avery, weems, childress, wright and Amir off the bench looks very competitive on paper. JJ is a lockdown defender, and Marvin is an improvement on d as a well. Childress is a legitimate 6th man of the year candidate, while Bradley and weems would be a very dynamic combo off the bench. Offensively, JJ is the best shot creator we had since the VC days and he won't have to work himself to death in the regular season.

MLSE would have to pony up a ton of cash, but we'd be a legitimate candidate for the conference finals, which would make up most of the cash.

So here's dreaming ...
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Any link to this BS? Or is this just a pipe dream?

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Old 06-15-2010, 01:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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lol it says so here's dreaming so I am guessing it is a pipe dream
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:09 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Well i haven't seen Chad Ford say anything about us dealing with Atlanta, or getting JJ. No way would any American writer say anything that good about the Raptors.
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Old 06-15-2010, 02:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I see a couple of problems with what you're suggesting. But I can think of a seperate scenario in which Atlanta would take Hedo. I'll get to that at the end of the post.

Problems:

1 - Sac is not a good fit for Hedo. It really isn't. In my opinion, the only reason why that rumour has any legs is due to Hedo claiming he wants to go to Sac town.

2 - I think Atlanta could do better if they choose to trade JJ. It might be in the Hawks interest to S & T for picks and a TPE.

3 - If Atlanta let's JJ walk or trades him for picks and a TPE, that creates cap space (after the TPE is renounced). The Hawks would have over $8 million to spend, which would be more than enough to sign John Salmons, who will probably opt out this summer. He could be the Hawks new shooting guard. After that, management might make further moves (at that point they might acquire Hedo). From both a financial and a basketball perspective, signing Salmons and netting a couple of picks would be better than trading JJ for Hedon't and an extra $10 million in expirings. Atlanta is in tough financial times, so I don't think they take on extra salary just to facillitate a trade for Hedo.

4 - The Raps can't sign Childress with the MLE because Atlanta owns his rights. He is a restricted free agent. Furthermore, if he was a UFA, Chilldress could probably get a deal at $6 mill per from another team. The MLE likely wouldn't be enough.


Now, oddly enough, I could see Hedo going to Atlanta under other circumstances. The Hawks situation is screaming: "WE NEED A NEW VET WITH RECENT PLAYOFF EXPERIENCE!!!" If Atlanta uses cap space to sign Salmons to play the SG position, or brings back Chilldress to do it, then they might want to trade for Hedo. Atlanta might actually believe he could help them in the playoffs. But they won't be giving the Raps Joe Johnson. It's more likey they are ditching Williams.

Something like this might work:

Hedo and Jack for Williams and Bibby

Hedo and Evans for Williams and Pachulia or Bibby

It would depend on what other moves Atlanta makes or is considering at the time of the trade.
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Old 06-15-2010, 04:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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pass the pipe
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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exactly ... pass the pipe
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:34 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
If Chad ford is right, we already have a trade partner for hedu. Going by the recent rumours, it's probably Sacramento or Atlanta. At first I was skeptical of both reports, but after some thought, it's not that far fetched.

Both teams need a player like hedu. JJ is likely gone, as they won't overpay to retain him. Hedu would provide some of the things they lose (shot creating and 3 point shooting) at a fraction of the cost. They would have to unload Williams, but they would be happy to do it. Sacramento needs a SF and a veteran presence. Prince is an option, but Detroit is apparently asking for a pick swap, which is a high price.

The thing about turkoglu is that outside teams are probably looking at his body of work, which is not that bad. They could be seeing his bad year here as a bad fit, and hoping for a rebound. And at 10 million range, there aren't many players available this summer who can provide what Turk does.

If we do a trade with atlanta, I expect to see something like Marvin and jj for hedu, derozan, banks,Evans and Marco or Jack. If we draft avery, we could offer Bosh a group of jj, Andrea, marvin, bradley, Jose, Amir and maybe sign childress to mle. That's far superior to what Miami can offer, while also enabling Bosh to retain alpha dog status. In fact, that would make us and Chicago as the top 2 destinations for Bosh this summer, and his loyalty would probably give us the edge.

This would be a best case scenario, a team of:
Jose + jj + Williams + Bosh + Bargnani and avery, weems, childress, wright and Amir off the bench looks very competitive on paper. JJ is a lockdown defender, and Marvin is an improvement on d as a well. Childress is a legitimate 6th man of the year candidate, while Bradley and weems would be a very dynamic combo off the bench. Offensively, JJ is the best shot creator we had since the VC days and he won't have to work himself to death in the regular season.

MLSE would have to pony up a ton of cash, but we'd be a legitimate candidate for the conference finals, which would make up most of the cash.

So here's dreaming ...
Replace Triano with Jeff Van Gundy and we're good to go.
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Replace Triano with Jeff Van Gundy and we're good to go.
I would so be all over that.
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:58 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Marvin Williams would be a great SF on a team with Bosh and Bargs, so anyway he could come might be good. But not sure about all of the above.
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Old 06-15-2010, 11:25 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Us netting Williams in a trade that involves Hedo is a real wet dream.
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Well i haven't seen Chad Ford say anything about us dealing with Atlanta, or getting JJ. No way would any American writer say anything that good about the Raptors.
he said a good source told him we have a deal for turk, but the source didn't want to reveal the trade partner. The only two teams I heard rumours about were atlanta and sacramento. Of course, there could be others (NO, Philly), generally speaking, teams looking for a quality SF, teams looking to dump salaries and young teams looking for a veteran presence could be interested. Any deal will most likely involve taking on another bad contract though (nocioni or marvin williams).
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I see a couple of problems with what you're suggesting. But I can think of a seperate scenario in which Atlanta would take Hedo. I'll get to that at the end of the post.

Problems:

1 - Sac is not a good fit for Hedo. It really isn't. In my opinion, the only reason why that rumour has any legs is due to Hedo claiming he wants to go to Sac town.

2 - I think Atlanta could do better if they choose to trade JJ. It might be in the Hawks interest to S & T for picks and a TPE.

3 - If Atlanta let's JJ walk or trades him for picks and a TPE, that creates cap space (after the TPE is renounced). The Hawks would have over $8 million to spend, which would be more than enough to sign John Salmons, who will probably opt out this summer. He could be the Hawks new shooting guard. After that, management might make further moves (at that point they might acquire Hedo). From both a financial and a basketball perspective, signing Salmons and netting a couple of picks would be better than trading JJ for Hedon't and an extra $10 million in expirings. Atlanta is in tough financial times, so I don't think they take on extra salary just to facillitate a trade for Hedo.

4 - The Raps can't sign Childress with the MLE because Atlanta owns his rights. He is a restricted free agent. Furthermore, if he was a UFA, Chilldress could probably get a deal at $6 mill per from another team. The MLE likely wouldn't be enough.


Now, oddly enough, I could see Hedo going to Atlanta under other circumstances. The Hawks situation is screaming: "WE NEED A NEW VET WITH RECENT PLAYOFF EXPERIENCE!!!" If Atlanta uses cap space to sign Salmons to play the SG position, or brings back Chilldress to do it, then they might want to trade for Hedo. Atlanta might actually believe he could help them in the playoffs. But they won't be giving the Raps Joe Johnson. It's more likey they are ditching Williams.

Something like this might work:

Hedo and Jack for Williams and Bibby

Hedo and Evans for Williams and Pachulia or Bibby

It would depend on what other moves Atlanta makes or is considering at the time of the trade.
I disagree. Atlanta is very dissapointed with marvin, who is sort of a joey graham for them, has some great games now and then and completely dissapears for long stretches. And he's due a lot of money (almost as much as turk) for long stretches. If this assumption is correct, my trade scenarios is very beneficial for them. They get rid of a bad contract (williams), they get a young talent with lots of upside in derozan, and replace some of what they lose with JJ. I don't know many teams willing to take williams off their hand (at 3 years and 8/yr left). The other thing to consider is that, like Bosh, JJ must agree to go be traded. He has a good relation with bryan who made him who he is now, and would come to a great situation with Bosh and the other quality pieces. And he's not the type that craves publicity, so a big market is probably not high on his radar.

As far as childress, since Atlanta owns his rights, we could easily arrange a formula that allows us to get him for MLE or so. Either they renounce his rights and we sign him outright (and ship a 2nd rounder to them), or they S&T him for somebody like wright etc.
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I wouldn't say Marvin Williams is a bad contract at all. After Johnson, Smith, Horford, he's probably next in line in terms of touches. He's what? 24? And he gets paid 6 and a half mil a season? 10 and 5 being the 4th option isn't that bad.
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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And he's due a lot of money (almost as much as turk) for long stretches.
Williams
10-11 6712500
11-12 7500000
12-13 8287500
13-14 7500000 (PO)

Turkoglu
10-11 9800000
11-12 10600000
12-13 11400000
13-14 12200000 (PO)

Williams is 23, Turkoglu is 31.
Atlanta would not only be getting older by doing a Turkoglu for Williams deal, but in the lifetime of the contract, could be taking on another 14 mil (which could be as much as 21 million +.
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:14 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Us netting Williams in a trade that involves Hedo is a real wet dream.
I think you're overvalueing marvin, his contract is pretty bad for what he gives you. People complain hedu is overpaid, but marvin is averaging 10 and 5 for them, at almost the same salary ... that's actually my point, we look at hedu as a major dissapointment, but his numbers are not that bad actually. Look at what nocioni and marvin are doing for their teams, and they make 80% of hedu's salary. And neither is even close as experienced or creates the matchup problems turkoglu does.
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:17 PM   #17 (permalink)
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marvin for hedo would be glorious. he's not a star, but he's athletic, quick, from a good defensive system, he's younger, cheaper, and hedo is already grumbling about wanting to leave. i can't see any reason that this wouldn't be a heck of a good deal. it depends a lot on who else is involved, but straighht up, i don't think we have a chance at getting anything better than this for hedo.
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I think you're overvalueing marvin, his contract is pretty bad for what he gives you. People complain hedu is overpaid, but marvin is averaging 10 and 5 for them, at almost the same salary ... that's actually my point, we look at hedu as a major dissapointment, but his numbers are not that bad actually. Look at what nocioni and marvin are doing for their teams, and they make 80% of hedu's salary. And neither is even close as experienced or creates the matchup problems turkoglu does.
Marvin averages 10 and 5 for them being the 4th option on offense. ANd he gets paid about 3 million less than Hedo.

Williams could be a real mismatch because he is a solid ball handler and his size gives other 3's a problem.

Atlanta would be insane to even entertain a deal in which the stars of the transaction are Williams and Turkoglu.
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Marvin averages 10 and 5 for them being the 4th option on offense. ANd he gets paid about 3 million less than Hedo.

Williams could be a real mismatch because he is a solid ball handler and his size gives other 3's a problem.

Atlanta would be insane to even entertain a deal in which the stars of the transaction are Williams and Turkoglu.
I don't think so, especially since it wouldn't be a straight one for one... they could look to grab an additional asset or unload an additional contract to toronto.... not so insane to consider.
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:51 PM   #20 (permalink)
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If anyone is leaving there team 100% this 2010 off season JJ has to be up there... so yes wouldnt Atlanta try to work out a sign and trade for him if they know he's not coming back so they get something in return......

And if we offer turk + filler(s)/Expirings could it get done? Maybe throw in the 13th pick?

Pipe dream and a half but.....

If this gets done it my convince Bosh to stay.... Bosh + JJ ...... Bosh gets to still remain the MAN on the team and JJ is the all star guard he been asking for.....
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