Where would Raps have been without Jose? - Page 6
Old 11-19-2012, 01:10 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Omitting Collison was an oversight on my part.... forgot that Jose started against DAL. Still... 15 & 2 on 5-13 shooting was hardly spectacular. Jose pretty much played him to standstill from a statistical standpoint.

He's never going to be a candidate for the all-defensive team... EVER. But he's certainly hasn't the been the cause of our bad starts and isn't nearly the sieve that he was in years past when he was battling injuries.

Jose has his limitations... but he's an excellent back up PG and a credible starter in a pinch. MORE than credible in fact.
So you haven't seen all the breakdowns that lead to easy 3s or way too many fouls in the paint? Again, I don't want to paint him as the scapegoat, but saying other pgs didn't kill it statistically doesn't paint a full picture at all.

There have been a few stretches where the Raptors had good teams on their heels. Łowry was a part of all of those. I could easily deal with Lowry playing 38-40 minutes an night and Lucas playing short stretches. Just trading baskets against all but the worst of teams does not get me too excited over the stretch of another season. I can barely wait until Jose s no longer starting, and then I hope it does not become automatic that he share the backcourt down the stretch. Ultimately, that would make him a bit of an awkward fit. As much as we want to recognize what he can do, it's a little too much to accept limited minutes, and not enough to squeeze minutes out of the rotation for him. His time here is likely near its end. It's a bit sad, but not such a bad thing at all.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:44 PM   #102 (permalink)
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So you haven't seen all the breakdowns that lead to easy 3s or way too many fouls in the paint? Again, I don't want to paint him as the scapegoat, but saying other pgs didn't kill it statistically doesn't paint a full picture at all.

There have been a few stretches where the Raptors had good teams on their heels. Łowry was a part of all of those. I could easily deal with Lowry playing 38-40 minutes an night and Lucas playing short stretches. Just trading baskets against all but the worst of teams does not get me too excited over the stretch of another season. I can barely wait until Jose s no longer starting, and then I hope it does not become automatic that he share the backcourt down the stretch. Ultimately, that would make him a bit of an awkward fit. As much as we want to recognize what he can do, it's a little too much to accept limited minutes, and not enough to squeeze minutes out of the rotation for him. His time here is likely near its end. It's a bit sad, but not such a bad thing at all.
Again... I'm not arguing for him over Lowry.... I want Kyle back just as much as everyone else...

Lucas running the point full-time would have probably been a disaster. Mike James Part 2 (except Mike James actually racked up a good amount of assists too).

Say what you will about Jose but our bigs play much better offensively when he's feeding them the ball.

There's still only ONE person that I want traded ASAP... because I think it would improve our team greatly... and it's not Jose.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:28 PM   #103 (permalink)
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How come TORaptor4Ever can actually perceive what I am writing? Him and I often disagree with each other, but rarely misunderstand each other...
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:45 PM   #104 (permalink)
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How come TORaptor4Ever can actually perceive what I am writing? Him and I often disagree with each other, but rarely misunderstand each other...
Because we both speak similar brands of crazy?
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:48 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Because we both speak similar brands of crazy?
Crazy? How come you get that I am not, say, promoting Caldy over Lowry, or that I am not looking to be recognized as a prophet? If it's due to us sharing the room at the asylum, then so be it, I guess.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:29 PM   #106 (permalink)
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For the record, I didn't give you thumbs down. I see what you're trying to say, although I think you're nitpicking in the very way that you claim to hate from others.

If you're saying that you meant the whole deal including the past seasons, then he made $9+ mill per year. Is that one million worth calling Halph crazy? I guess so.

People were quick to correct you because you called it "crazy talk" when it wasn't clear that Halph was even talking about the past, but rather this year's salary and going forward. I interpreted his statement to mean that Jose is fine so long as he takes a paycut. Without a paycut, he would be a $10+ mill player on his next contract. I viewed Halph's comment as a basic common sense point, not crazy talk.
No. Im not. His contract averaged about 8 millions a year no?

thats what he makes. so stop.

its as base as if everyone would say he was cheapo in the first few. You average the overall contract, thats what his hit to the franchise was. If youre plan is to sign a bunch of guys and back load the deal then trade um after two years...good on ya, but you wont ever win shit. I'm not nitpicking, im making a very valid and pretty obvious observation.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:55 AM   #107 (permalink)
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No. Im not. His contract averaged about 8 millions a year no?

thats what he makes. so stop
No. You need to stop.

$9+ mill. $46 million over 5 years. I would aslo note that there is an additional trade kicker that would push it even higher if they tried to move him.

So, no, you're wrong.

And, yes, you called him "crazy" over a difference of 1 million per year.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:32 AM   #108 (permalink)
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I have to say that amidst all of the SF talk one guy that I'm befuddled about is Wilson Chandler in DEN.... This was one of the guys that we were really looking at hard and it seems as though he can't even get off the bench there.

What gives?
He struggled last year before and after experiencing problems with his hip, and he eventually had surgery on it. His contract lines up nicely with Kleiza plus Ed....
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:51 PM   #109 (permalink)
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So you haven't seen all the breakdowns that lead to easy 3s or way too many fouls in the paint? Again, I don't want to paint him as the scapegoat, but saying other pgs didn't kill it statistically doesn't paint a full picture at all.

There have been a few stretches where the Raptors had good teams on their heels. Łowry was a part of all of those. I could easily deal with Lowry playing 38-40 minutes an night and Lucas playing short stretches. Just trading baskets against all but the worst of teams does not get me too excited over the stretch of another season. I can barely wait until Jose s no longer starting, and then I hope it does not become automatic that he share the backcourt down the stretch. Ultimately, that would make him a bit of an awkward fit. As much as we want to recognize what he can do, it's a little too much to accept limited minutes, and not enough to squeeze minutes out of the rotation for him. His time here is likely near its end. It's a bit sad, but not such a bad thing at all.
Absolutely bang on 100%. Jose's D handicapped us the entire 4th quarter. It's just laughably predictable. Jose gets blown by we overhelp with 2 or more defenders and we leave 2 guys open from 3.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:55 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Absolutely bang on 100%. Jose's D handicapped us the entire 4th quarter. It's just laughably predictable. Jose gets blown by we overhelp with 2 or more defenders and we leave 2 guys open from 3.
Yes.... you're right... this was ALL Jose's fault.

He did nothing to help the team during the entire game and we should waive his scrub ass (along with Fields right?).

Lulz.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:57 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Cleveland believes they have a playoff spot contending team and I heard they're looking for a PG since Irving's out.............................
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:00 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Cleveland believes they have a playoff spot contending team and I heard they're looking for a PG since Irving's out.............................
Trade Jose for their pick
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:00 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Yes.... you're right... this was ALL Jose's fault.

He did nothing to help the team during the entire game and we should waive his scrub ass (along with Fields right?).

Lulz.
The guy should be strictly 15 minutes a game. Go tell me the drop off in play when we switched from Lowry to Jose. Take a look at the defensive drop offs. I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade. It's because of Jose's defense teams are consistently getting open shots, open 3s all quarter long. Go watch him and Bargnani defend the pick and roll and tell me thats not costing us games. Everything LX said rings true to a bell. Yet people still refuse to take off the rose coloured glasses.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:04 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Jose and other for sideshow Bob!!!
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:17 PM   #115 (permalink)
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The guy should be strictly 15 minutes a game. Go tell me the drop off in play when we switched from Lowry to Jose. Take a look at the defensive drop offs. I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade. It's because of Jose's defense teams are consistently getting open shots, open 3s all quarter long. Go watch him and Bargnani defend the pick and roll and tell me thats not costing us games. Everything LX said rings true to a bell. Yet people still refuse to take off the rose coloured glasses.
I've already acknowledged that defense is not his strong suit.

The thing that YOU refuse to acknowledge is that Jose generally provides much more to the team than defense. He's a good shooter and an excellent passer who gets (and keeps) others involved.

He's a weapon in the Raptors' arsenal... and a very effective one.

The problem is that Casey doesn't seem to know when it's time to change weapons to keep an enemy on his toes and remain unpredictable.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:26 PM   #116 (permalink)
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I've already acknowledged that defense is not his strong suit.

The thing that YOU refuse to acknowledge is that Jose generally provides much more to the team than defense. He's a good shooter and an excellent passer who gets (and keeps) others involved.

He's a weapon in the Raptors' arsenal... and a very effective one.

The problem is that Casey doesn't seem to know when it's time to change weapons to keep an enemy on his toes and remain unpredictable.
His horrible defense far outweighs the positive contributions he makes.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:30 PM   #117 (permalink)
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His horrible defense far outweighs the positive contributions he makes.
No. It doesn't.... unless you stupidly leave him alone on an island and expect him to guard the opponent's best perimeter player.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:33 PM   #118 (permalink)
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No. It doesn't.... unless you stupidly leave him alone on an island and expect him to guard the opponent's best perimeter player.
Even 2nd stringers do the same to him.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:41 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Even 2nd stringers do the same to him.
Such as....?

I'll wait while you go back through the gamelogs this season and provide me names of 2nd string guards who torched Jose.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:47 PM   #120 (permalink)
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jose CAN be a good fantasy PG, thats about it, and a good backup with limited minutes, no 4ths.
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