Where would Raps have been without Jose? - Page 5
Old 11-19-2012, 10:01 AM   #81 (permalink)
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I'll admit I'm not a Calderon fan but he's held his own in quite a few games this year. He at the very least plays hard and gives a shit about winning unlike another European on the team. We're better off with him so far.

lol@ that tweet to Eric Smith.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:10 AM   #82 (permalink)
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In all my years of watching bball (5) Jose has been one of the most consistently professional players in this league.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:29 AM   #83 (permalink)
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The guy is kinda overrated. Sure he got a lot of assists yesterday. But did you see the kinda D he was playing on Nelson? Even against Rondo?

The guy costs us games on the defensive end. Overhelping, horrible P & roll D, doesn't create any turnovers.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:48 AM   #84 (permalink)
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Unless its a top tier elite point guard, I think it's often a trade off of skills. With Jose you get great leadership, all the effort he can give, takes care of the ball as well as anyone, and shoots the ball very well (especially this season it seems). What you give up is defense and the ability to get Into the lane to disrupt defenses. As a backup point guard, which was what I believe his best role is, he is better than most.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:10 AM   #85 (permalink)
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The guy is kinda overrated. Sure he got a lot of assists yesterday. But did you see the kinda D he was playing on Nelson? Even against Rondo?

The guy costs us games on the defensive end. Overhelping, horrible P & roll D, doesn't create any turnovers.
I've always said this. Great assist totals, but he gives them back at the other end. He can shoot but usually chooses not to so he gives you very little in the way of scoring. He's slow, over dribbles and is usually dull to watch yet often frustrating. His fans overrate him, his detractors under rate him. He's a very good backup, a decent starter. Either way I'd like to see us move on from Calderon era. And to be honest, the man has been loyal and I believe deserves to move on somewhere else.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:15 AM   #86 (permalink)
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I've always said this. Great assist totals, but he gives them back at the other end. He can shoot but usually chooses not to so he gives you very little in the way of scoring. He's slow, over dribbles and is usually dull to watch yet often frustrating. His fans overrate him, his detractors under rate him. He's a very good backup, a decent starter. Either way I'd like to see us move on from Calderon era. And to be honest, the man has been loyal and I believe deserves to move on somewhere else.
This. Also, well said.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:23 AM   #87 (permalink)
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He definitely does give them back on the other end and I'd say many of his assists are difficult finishes by his teammates.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:30 AM   #88 (permalink)
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He definitely does give them back on the other end and I'd say many of his assists are difficult finishes by his teammates.
I don't know about difficult finishes but he dribbles the ball and gets the clock way down so often times whoever he passes it to often has to shoot. The ball doesn't move much him him on the floor and he has the ball in his hands constantly and he rarely shoots so of course he's going to get you 9+ assists per game. I always hear that Kevin is nothing but empty stats and I would say that is more of that than Love is.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:09 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Not really sure if that's fair to say (if we're talking about THIS season).

Nelson: 8 pts, 9 assists, 3-13 shooting
Rondo: 6 pts, 20 assists, 3-4 shooting (fair enough)
Hill: 18 pts, 2 assists, 8-20 shooting
Williams: 17 pts, 14 assists, 6-16 shooting
Holiday: 16 pts, 5 assists, 6-11 shooting

Jose actually outplayed every one of those guys as the starter with the exception of Rondo. And none of them really went crazy.
So... All of you who've said that Calderon is giving up too much on the defensive end chose to simply ignore the post above, right?

Thanks to those of you who've recognized what Jose is doing right now.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:11 PM   #90 (permalink)
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I don't know about difficult finishes but he dribbles the ball and gets the clock way down so often times whoever he passes it to often has to shoot. The ball doesn't move much him him on the floor and he has the ball in his hands constantly and he rarely shoots so of course he's going to get you 9+ assists per game. I always hear that Kevin is nothing but empty stats and I would say that is more of that than Love is.
Oh, that again, it's so easy to get 9 assists per game in the NBA, just dribble the ball a lot, right...

Jeff, how many point guards you know who've averaged the kind of assists numbers Jose does as a starter? And this on a team not known for great shooting or great finishing in general - you do know that a lot of times our players get fouled after a great pass from Jose and just because it's not "and 1" the pass doesn't get counted as an assist.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:21 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Barg+Ross for Rudy Gay or is that too much?
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:24 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Barg+Ross for Rudy Gay or is that too much?
Not that it has anything to do with this thread, but I doubt Griz would entertain this idea at the moment.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:44 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Barg+Ross for Rudy Gay or is that too much?
we're getting back too much
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:45 PM   #94 (permalink)
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I have to say that amidst all of the SF talk one guy that I'm befuddled about is Wilson Chandler in DEN.... This was one of the guys that we were really looking at hard and it seems as though he can't even get off the bench there.

What gives?
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:46 PM   #95 (permalink)
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So... All of you who've said that Calderon is giving up too much on the defensive end chose to simply ignore the post above, right?

Thanks to those of you who've recognized what Jose is doing right now.
Oh dear - please tell us how good e is defensively. Please.

There's no mention of Collison, nor any indication of all the terrible defensive starts with him on the floor. That's not to say that he isn't fighting and competing nicely. It was nice to see his reaction after the Indy game. It's beyond me how that becomes so personal for you.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:46 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Oh, that again, it's so easy to get 9 assists per game in the NBA, just dribble the ball a lot, right...

Jeff, how many point guards you know who've averaged the kind of assists numbers Jose does as a starter? And this on a team not known for great shooting or great finishing in general - you do know that a lot of times our players get fouled after a great pass from Jose and just because it's not "and 1" the pass doesn't get counted as an assist.
Who said it was easy? Just saying, that stat for him is inflated due to the way he plays imo. The way he holds onto the ball and dribbles down the shot clock and doesn't shoot, he's bound to get his share of assists.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:53 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Oh dear - please tell us how good e is defensively. Please.

There's no mention of Collison, nor any indication of all the terrible defensive starts with him on the floor. That's not to say that he isn't fighting and competing nicely. It was nice to see his reaction after the Indy game. It's beyond me how that becomes so personal for you.
Omitting Collison was an oversight on my part.... forgot that Jose started against DAL. Still... 15 & 2 on 5-13 shooting was hardly spectacular. Jose pretty much played him to standstill from a statistical standpoint.

He's never going to be a candidate for the all-defensive team... EVER. But he's certainly hasn't the been the cause of our bad starts and isn't nearly the sieve that he was in years past when he was battling injuries.

Jose has his limitations... but he's an excellent back up PG and a credible starter in a pinch. MORE than credible in fact.

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Who said it was easy? Just saying, that stat for him is inflated due to the way he plays imo. The way he holds onto the ball and dribbles down the shot clock and doesn't shoot, he's bound to get his share of assists.
You say this over and over and over again jeff..... makes me wonder if you watch the games sometimes.

Jose's made a concerted effort to push the ball more and has made MORE than a few 3/4 length of court passes and alley oops.

There ARE times when he'll hold the ball a bit too long waiting for a play to develop, but he's been a lot better about moving the rock lately.

Last edited by TORaptor4Ever; 11-19-2012 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:57 PM   #98 (permalink)
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I have to say that amidst all of the SF talk one guy that I'm befuddled about is Wilson Chandler in DEN.... This was one of the guys that we were really looking at hard and it seems as though he can't even get off the bench there.

What gives?

He's injured and plays behind Galinari. He's also not paid like a starter (making around 5.5mil this season).
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:58 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Ah. injured. That explains it then.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:08 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Omitting Collison was an oversight on my part.... forgot that Jose started against DAL. Still... 15 & 2 on 5-13 shooting was hardly spectacular. Jose pretty much played him to standstill from a statistical standpoint.

He's never going to be a candidate for the all-defensive team... EVER. But he's certainly hasn't the been the cause of our bad starts and isn't nearly the sieve that he was in years past when he was battling injuries.

Jose has his limitations... but he's an excellent back up PG and a credible starter in a pinch. MORE than credible in fact.



You say this over and over and over again jeff..... makes me wonder if you watch the games sometimes.

Jose's made a concerted effort to push the ball more and has made MORE than a few 3/4 length of court passes and alley oops.

There ARE times when he'll hold the ball a bit too long waiting for a play to develop, but he's been a lot better about moving the rock lately.
I agree that he's made an effort to move the ball up quicker. But it's inconsistent game to game and he still slows shit down and over dribbles far too much for my liking. We'll never agree about this so what's the point.
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