What's wrong with our offence ?
Old 12-30-2007, 12:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Any ideas why we are so inconsistant with our shooting ? We seem to be getting really good looks,times even with no defender around and we still can't make a bucket. Maybe its time that Jose takes more shots, he his our most consistant shooter. I am pretty sure he can do it,unlike TJ who tends to go shot happy.Jose has the smarts to be more of a scorer and still continue to get others involved.If Jose can be alittle team selfish and take the ball to the bucket more, especially when others are ice cold,we shoiuld get more points on the board. Any thoughts?
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Old 12-30-2007, 12:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Well, I've missed both of our last games (Spurs & Rockets) but from what I've read here and other boards, have our guys been settling for mid-range jumpers ala Bosh and not taking it to the hoop more often? If there's one area that I'd like us to improve on offense is driving to the basket and drawing fouls. If we settle for jumpers all the time we're not really helping ourselves like we're helping the opposing teams defense.
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Old 12-30-2007, 12:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Well, I've missed both of our last games (Spurs & Rockets) but from what I've read here and other boards, have our guys been settling for mid-range jumpers ala Bosh and not taking it to the hoop more often? If there's one area that I'd like us to improve on offense is driving to the basket and drawing fouls. If we settle for jumpers all the time we're not really helping ourselves like we're helping the opposing teams defense.
Bosh is the worst when it comes for settling for the jumper. Last nights game we only shot 52% from the free throw line, just horrible. I mention Jose because he can drive to the basket and hit his jumper as an option. Guys like Moon and Humps must drive to the basket more often because their jump shot sucks. Same thing with Bargs when he drives he can make things happen.Anyway you mention you visit other boards, you must get a chuckle on the board where the moderators protect their opinions on their favourite players. You know the one I mean where TJ is this and that where they cut up Jose and come up with so many bull shit reasons why he is doing well. Sorry about my rant but that other board has to be the most bias board protected by a group of bias moderators that I have seen in any sport message board I have posted in.
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Old 12-30-2007, 12:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Which board are you talking about raptor123?
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Old 12-30-2007, 01:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Which board are you talking about raptor123?

Doc it's http://raptorschat.ca/forums/ just be careful any mention of Jose Calderon as a good player and they will double and triple team you and tell you how wonderful TJ is. Good luck. I hope they dont delete your opinions because they screen.

Last edited by raptor123; 12-30-2007 at 04:19 PM. Reason: update
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Old 12-30-2007, 05:16 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Doc it's http://raptorschat.ca/forums/ just be careful any mention of Jose Calderon as a good player and they will double and triple team you and tell you how wonderful TJ is. Good luck. I hope they dont delete your opinions because they screen.
haha ... no worries raptor123 .... I've ventured over to Raptors Chat a couple times before and it's a little too juvenile for my liking.

But, it is a refreshing thought because most of the other Raptors boards that I've visited usually complain and were dissatisfied with Ford on this team and gloated about Jose 24-7. Good to see that T.J. has a fan club somewhere at least.
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Old 12-30-2007, 05:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Any ideas why we are so inconsistant with our shooting ? We seem to be getting really good looks,times even with no defender around and we still can't make a bucket. Maybe its time that Jose takes more shots, he his our most consistant shooter. I am pretty sure he can do it,unlike TJ who tends to go shot happy.Jose has the smarts to be more of a scorer and still continue to get others involved.If Jose can be alittle team selfish and take the ball to the bucket more, especially when others are ice cold,we shoiuld get more points on the board. Any thoughts?
So you don't like TJ because he is "shot happy" but you want Jose to became "shot happy" ... Also, Jose becoming more of a scorer it means "smarts" while TJ being a scorer it means "he sucks"?

I am asking this because TJ goes nuts taking many shots when nothing else works or Raptors are many points behind. While you ARE RIGHT ASKING JOSE TO TAKE MORE SHOTS when the opposite team starts to crowd the paint and give him room, I don't understand why this means "smarts" for Jose and "sucks" for TJ ... that's all!
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Old 12-30-2007, 06:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
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So you don't like TJ because he is "shot happy" but you want Jose to became "shot happy" ... Also, Jose becoming more of a scorer it means "smarts" while TJ being a scorer it means "he sucks"?

I am asking this because TJ goes nuts taking many shots when nothing else works or Raptors are many points behind. While you ARE RIGHT ASKING JOSE TO TAKE MORE SHOTS when the opposite team starts to crowd the paint and give him room, I don't understand why this means "smarts" for Jose and "sucks" for TJ ... that's all!

Its very simple because one point guard plays under control while the other tends to play with his head cut off at times .
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Its very simple because one point guard plays under control while the other tends to play with his head cut off at times .
No wonder you got cornered by TJ fans ... You are kind of childish.
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Old 12-31-2007, 12:29 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Any ideas why we are so inconsistant with our shooting ? We seem to be getting really good looks,times even with no defender around and we still can't make a bucket. Maybe its time that Jose takes more shots, he his our most consistant shooter. I am pretty sure he can do it,unlike TJ who tends to go shot happy.Jose has the smarts to be more of a scorer and still continue to get others involved.If Jose can be alittle team selfish and take the ball to the bucket more, especially when others are ice cold,we shoiuld get more points on the board. Any thoughts?
TJ and Jose both play different types of games; TJ play a game of grit and run n' gun offense, while Jose on the other hand plays a controlled textbook type of game. I believe this is a huge advantage to have if both are played wisely.

Jose should be the starter just for the fact that he can get the team rolling with his controlled tempo and unselfishness resulting on getting the opposing team running around. If Jose is successful then Ford can easily come in and play his type of game, TJ is more comfortable in situations where he is the main possessor of the ball.

Easier said than done I guess.
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:30 AM   #12 (permalink)
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TJ and Jose both play different types of games; TJ play a game of grit and run n' gun offense, while Jose on the other hand plays a controlled textbook type of game. I believe this is a huge advantage to have if both are played wisely.

Jose should be the starter just for the fact that he can get the team rolling with his controlled tempo and unselfishness resulting on getting the opposing team running around. If Jose is successful then Ford can easily come in and play his type of game, TJ is more comfortable in situations where he is the main possessor of the ball.

Easier said than done I guess.
Well said,........however with TJ out at this time may be Jose can pick his spots and take the ball to the basket.Many times he runs the ball up court only to set up the half court offence.When the team is struggling with its shooting maybe taken it to the hoop would not be a bad idea.Taking the ball to the basket should be done alot more on this team. It seems we shoot our selves in the foot when will settle for the jumper and its not only one guy its the entire team.
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:41 AM   #13 (permalink)
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No wonder you got cornered by TJ fans ... You are kind of childish.
Sorry if I upset you TJ fan . Hey nothing against TJ here, all I was trying to say was that TJ at times loses control. You must hear it during the games from Leo, Chuck and JACK. I think we are better team when both are in the line up, however TJ is out with his injury. I would like to see alittle TJ in Jose. I strongly believe that Jose can take the ball alittle more to the basket and get his guys alittle more touches on the fast break instead of setting up the half court offence most of the time.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:45 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I strongly believe that Jose can take the ball alittle more to the basket and get his guys alittle more touches on the fast break instead of setting up the half court offence most of the time.
You can believe that all you want, but since TJ hasn't been here, that hasn't been happening. We are a better team with TJ in the lineup... best when both are healthy but our offensive struggles are due in large part to not having TJ playing. The team was built around him and Bosh... Jose played his way to a full time backup role but he's never been as good at kick-starting the offense like TJ.
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:23 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Remember that with Tj in the starting line up we were, under .500. I dont understand when people say we need this point guard or the other. The thing is that our point guards are the only ones steppping up, when we lose its because the rest of the starters dont play how they should. calde has been playing amazing lately and you say the problem is Tj is not there. No, the problem is parker shooting and the ball not even touching the rim, Bosh just setting for jump-shots, Bargs travelling three times a game, Moon not taking to the rim. Of course Tj would help, drawing fouls from the other teams, using speed, etc, and Calderon could do some things better, but thats far from being our main problem, the rest of the starters are. Although our last game we looked better.
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:33 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Jose played his way to a full time backup role but he's never been as good at kick-starting the offense like TJ.

While i agree with you that the team is a better team with TJ somewhere in the lineup, I disagree that he did a better job at kick-starting the offense. I think that Jose does an unbelievable job at running the team offense...and IMO if some of the players would just make the easy shots that they normally make....we wouldn't be having this discussion.

IMO Jose has to be a bit more aggressive and look for his own shot. He his one of the most consistent shooters we have on the team and he needs to learn that if the team is struggling a bit, he might need to be a little more selfish and look for his own shot as long as it comes within flow of the offence.
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:49 AM   #17 (permalink)
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While i agree with you that the team is a better team with TJ somewhere in the lineup, I disagree that he did a better job at kick-starting the offense. I think that Jose does an unbelievable job at running the team offense...and IMO if some of the players would just make the easy shots that they normally make....we wouldn't be having this discussion.

IMO Jose has to be a bit more aggressive and look for his own shot. He his one of the most consistent shooters we have on the team and he needs to learn that if the team is struggling a bit, he might need to be a little more selfish and look for his own shot as long as it comes within flow of the offence.
A team offense isn't just about guys hitting shots... it ebbs and flows. The pace of the offense and the different looks can really impact the flow and how players handle their shot opportunities. With TJ in the lineup if shots aren't falling..he gets to the line, penetrates and kicks and can put up quick points...each of these can lead to momentum swings and pick up the flow of the offense where shooters will start hitting their shots. We saw it last year constantly... we'd have 10-2 runs quite often, started by TJ's penetration and getting to the line. His impact is felt more than just 14ppg and 7 assists...

I agree with your comments about Jose... I love his game dont' get me wrong but i dont' think he's the ideal starter for THIS team... he's perfect in the backup role and the combo is lethal but he just can't get these guys going enough.
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Old 01-04-2008, 11:43 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I agree with your comments about Jose... I love his game dont' get me wrong but i dont' think he's the ideal starter for THIS team... he's perfect in the backup role and the combo is lethal but he just can't get these guys going enough.
I disagree with you totally on this one. I think Jose is the perfect starter for this team. I think TJ would be the perfect back up if we could get him to embrace the role. I'll give an example of this in Phoenix with barbosa (who backs up steve nash). Barbosa who is similar to ford in pure speed and the ability to score almost at will, is counted on to come in and put up numbers.

There's no doubt that TJ Ford is talented. Sometimes even unstoppable. But he doesn't get others involved as often as he needs to. Which hurts the team more than you would think. He is a true shooting guard (scorers mentality) in a point guards body. The problem is that he's too small to play along side Jose, or else this would definately be a dangerous team.

I think that the changes that Sam has done with the offense will be very productive. We need Bargs to step up and play better. Once he becomes comfortable we'll play much better in the new year.
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Old 01-04-2008, 11:59 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I disagree with you totally on this one. I think Jose is the perfect starter for this team. I think TJ would be the perfect back up if we could get him to embrace the role. I'll give an example of this in Phoenix with barbosa (who backs up steve nash). Barbosa who is similar to ford in pure speed and the ability to score almost at will, is counted on to come in and put up numbers.

There's no doubt that TJ Ford is talented. Sometimes even unstoppable. But he doesn't get others involved as often as he needs to. Which hurts the team more than you would think. He is a true shooting guard (scorers mentality) in a point guards body. The problem is that he's too small to play along side Jose, or else this would definately be a dangerous team.

I think that the changes that Sam has done with the offense will be very productive. We need Bargs to step up and play better. Once he becomes comfortable we'll play much better in the new year.

Any comparison to the Phoenix guards is ridiculous considering we only score 96ppg in my opinion. The proof is in the pudding... our offence struggles when Jose plays the whole game. He's had enough starts in this last stretch to establish himself and barring a couple good offensive games we've struggled. You can only blame the shooters for missing for so long before the excuse doesn't hold up. Jose has trouble establishing the flow of the game where TJ was very effective at that. Jose excels coming off the bench and maintaining the flow of the game... but has always struggled initiating it..and this year hasn't been much different.

Again not knocking him... but with THIS team, THESE players he is better at backing up TJ and the record and the stats back that up. We're better than a 17-15 team but the reason we're a 17-15 team is our best point guard has been injured.
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Please not another Tj-Jose 10 pages debate..., different opinions, doesnt matter most people prefer Jose.
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