What's hurt this team more? - Page 2

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View Poll Results: What's hurt us more as a franchise?
Not capitalizing on trading Bosh? 11 27.50%
Not getting a good haul for VC? 18 45.00%
Poor drafting in the first round? 7 17.50%
Poor drafting in the second round? 4 10.00%
All of the Above 7 17.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-22-2011, 01:39 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Please add an "all of the above" option.

Clearly the Raps have had chances to be a spectacular team, but have missed badly at times.

Hindsight is 50/50. But there does seem to be more misses than hits.
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:42 PM   #22 (permalink)
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You dont think Bosh demanded the ball. And that many of the plays were run through him. This surely hindered his development. As well as the fact that they both play the same position. They are both power forwards. So yeah, i think that could have hindered is development a little bit.
i just think its silly to put that on another player. if the case was Bargnani playing BEHIND Bosh and getting no minutes, then ya u can say he hindered his development. but that wasn't the case. Bargnani was getting minutes.
also, Bargnani doesn't exactly have the reputation of being a hard worker and putting time in to improve his game
look at urself before you start blaming others
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:53 PM   #23 (permalink)
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i just think its silly to put that on another player. if the case was Bargnani playing BEHIND Bosh and getting no minutes, then ya u can say he hindered his development. but that wasn't the case. Bargnani was getting minutes.
also, Bargnani doesn't exactly have the reputation of being a hard worker and putting time in to improve his game
look at urself before you start blaming others
The basis for my arguement is that barnani is probally within the top 3 of his draft today, and that choosing him 1st overall was not that big of a bust as people make it out to be.
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:59 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The basis for my arguement is that barnani is probally within the top 3 of his draft today, and that choosing him 1st overall was not that big of a bust as people make it out to be.
I'd say top 5... with Rondo and Milsap involved but those guys were truely hidden gems. Looking at the rest of the top 20... it's ugly.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:04 PM   #25 (permalink)
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1. rondo
2. aldridge
3. gay
4. millsap
5. bargnani

pre-inujured roy would defenitely be in there sliding Bargs out of the top 5
i'm not getting into whether he is a bust or not
this is just a reply that he is definitely not top 3
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:29 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I think what has hurt the most is never having a really extraordinary player, nor having the chance to develop a group of really good players at the same time. With any luck the second option is starting to happen now, with the injection of further talent still necessary.

And I think another thing that has hurt, has been the abundance of undersized tweener guards and weak players at the wings with poorly defined roles. Actually poor role definition overall would be another general item that I would list.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:51 PM   #27 (permalink)
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We seen that COllangelo can bring in a group of scorers. I would like to see some great defenders too. Reggie was a start, but not the solution.

YOu cannot count Milsap or Rondo in the top 5. Because at the time no one would have predicted that. So I still say he is in the top 3. And what we needed most at the time was a centre. SO there goes some of the options right from the get go.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:55 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Reggie is not a good defender; he is a good rebounder.

The most exciting defensive player on this team is also his most recent draft pick. I hope that is indicative of a trend in the future.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:57 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by b55bgc View Post
We seen that COllangelo can bring in a group of scorers. I would like to see some great defenders too. Reggie was a start, but not the solution.

YOu cannot count Milsap or Rondo in the top 5. Because at the time no one would have predicted that. So I still say he is in the top 3. And what we needed most at the time was a centre. SO there goes some of the options right from the get go.
how does that make any sense?
if we had to order the players from the 2006 draft as of today Bargnani is borderline top 5 (b.roy)
what kind of top 3 are u referring to??
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:02 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Getting nothing for Carter hurt this team the most. It gave the Raptors no uable or tradeable assets in return for one of the greatest palyers in the league at the time.

Bosh leaving is really too recent to decide if it hurt the raps the most. It may have hurt us this year but it is too soon to tell if we are in for additional long term pain.
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:04 PM   #31 (permalink)
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how does that make any sense?
if we had to order the players from the 2006 draft as of today Bargnani is borderline top 5 (b.roy)
what kind of top 3 are u referring to??
It's not borderline.... no team would draft a player top 5 if they knew he would have two bum knees in five years... not even LBJ.... and I'd suggest no GM would rather have Roy at this point than AB.

Now compare other years, and there are always non lottery picks that make top 10 at minimum.... it happens.
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:07 PM   #32 (permalink)
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how does that make any sense?
if we had to order the players from the 2006 draft as of today Bargnani is borderline top 5 (b.roy)
what kind of top 3 are u referring to??
He is saying that no GM in their right mind would have taken Rondo or Millsap as the #1 pick or even in the top 15. They were true hidden gems and the only way for the raps to have gotten them would have been to trade down in the draft. So, as for the legit projected top 10 picks at the time (and discounting Roy whose future now looks bleak), Aldridge, Rudy Gay and Bargs are the top 3.
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:10 PM   #33 (permalink)
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He is saying that no GM in their right mind would have taken Rondo or Millsap as the #1 pick or even in the top 15. They were true hidden gems and the only way for the raps to have gotten them would have been to trade down in the draft. So, as for the legit projected top 10 picks at the time (and discounting Roy whose future now looks bleak), Aldridge, Rudy Gay and Bargs are the top 3.
Finally someone sees the light.
I am not a huge Bargnani supporter, but I think sometimes peoples hate blind them from the facts.
Remember how desperately we needed a centre. LIke desperate.
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:13 PM   #34 (permalink)
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He is saying that no GM in their right mind would have taken Rondo or Millsap as the #1 pick or even in the top 15. They were true hidden gems and the only way for the raps to have gotten them would have been to trade down in the draft. So, as for the legit projected top 10 picks at the time (and discounting Roy whose future now looks bleak), Aldridge, Rudy Gay and Bargs are the top 3.
OK..... if ur gonna shrink it down to the top 3 out of the top 10 picks from that year. THERE ARE ONLY 3!!
1.barg
2. LA
3. morrison
4. tyrus
5. sheldon williams
6. roy
7. foye
8. gay
9. patrick obryant
10. mouhammed sene

so i don't know how this is saying much...
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:21 PM   #35 (permalink)
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1. rondo
2. aldridge
3. gay
4. millsap
5. bargnani

pre-inujured roy would defenitely be in there sliding Bargs out of the top 5
i'm not getting into whether he is a bust or not
this is just a reply that he is definitely not top 3
do you think that with gay or millsap for Bargnani Raptors record woud be better?
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:21 PM   #36 (permalink)
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OK..... if ur gonna shrink it down to the top 3 out of the top 10 picks from that year. THERE ARE ONLY 3!!
1.barg
2. LA
3. morrison
4. tyrus
5. sheldon williams
6. roy
7. foye
8. gay
9. patrick obryant
10. mouhammed sene

so i don't know how this is saying much...
then shrink it to top 20... top 30.... your argument is trivial to begin with. Most GMs would be content knowing years down the road that their number one pick was at worst the 5th best player in the draft.... If you could show AB as the 12th best, then you have an argument... but the draft has a major crapshoot element that you're ignoring....
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:31 PM   #37 (permalink)
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do you think that with gay or millsap for Bargnani Raptors record woud be better?
no, but that was not the basis for the ranking

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Originally Posted by carp View Post
then shrink it to top 20... top 30.... your argument is trivial to begin with. Most GMs would be content knowing years down the road that their number one pick was at worst the 5th best player in the draft.... If you could show AB as the 12th best, then you have an argument... but the draft has a major crapshoot element that you're ignoring....
that wasn't what i was trying to argue...
the guys said Bargnani was not as big of a bust as ppl make him out to be and is in the top 3 from that draft.
i said i didn't want to get into whether he was a bust or not, but i said he definitely is not top 3
he then says Bargs is top 3 if u consider those that were top 10 picks or legitly considered to be top picks (leaving out millsap and rondo)
so basically what i was saying is, if thats all ur considering then ya he's top 3 cuz basically there was only 3
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:35 PM   #38 (permalink)
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no, but that was not the basis for the ranking



that wasn't what i was trying to argue...
the guys said Bargnani was not as big of a bust as ppl make him out to be and is in the top 3 from that draft.
i said i didn't want to get into whether he was a bust or not, but i said he definitely is not top 3
he then says Bargs is top 3 if u consider those that were top 10 picks or legitly considered to be top picks (leaving out millsap and rondo)
so basically what i was saying is, if thats all ur considering then ya he's top 3 cuz basically there was only 3
fair enough... he's not top 3... but he's top 3 of what should be reasonable to expect...

Anytime you can claim a top 5 player out of any draft, it should be deemed a success. Nitpicking is useless in discussing a crapshoot. It's like saying Bosh was a bust because Wade went after him.
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Old 02-22-2011, 04:44 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I would say everything except the Bosh part. If I remember correctly, we were killing it before the trade deadline last year and were 5th seed looking in on 4th. Why would we have traded Bosh then?

IMO, the VC trade was one of the most horrible trades in the history of this league.
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Old 02-22-2011, 05:10 PM   #40 (permalink)
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When Bosh came back from the All Star weekend, you could tell the culture of the team changed over night.
Bosh was probally day dreaming in the locker room about better days to come with his two boyfriends
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