What They're Saying: 2013-2014 Edition - Page 27
Old 04-13-2014, 11:29 PM   #521 (permalink)
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yeah, but his picks in toronto kind of support the more likely theory he has a good eye for talent. Of course, so did isiah, drafting is only part of the game.

I continue to maintain that BC would be a great GM if only he had the patience. That's a very underrated skill in a GM - and somewhat understandable given the pressures to win. The sad truth is nearly every time you reach (i.e. go for low probability), you will strike out. In BC's case, it was almost a 100% strike out, from kapono to JO to Turkoglu to Nash (luckily for us didn't happen) and finally Gay.

The only gamble that paid off was the trade for lowry, but that was arguably not a reach, since lowry clearly had talent and was very underpaid, and the upcoming draft was known to be quite poor. Still - that trade could have been very disastruous for us, the way it was structured - luckily we missed the playoffs and got out of it easily. And then again, if the greek guy turns out to be as good as some project, and given that masai (and BC for that matter) really liked him, it could still end up as a bad, bad trade (more so if lowry walks out on us).
BC is a good trader, drafter and might be ok with signings, but in this market signing higher end players is very difficult and overpaying for FA's is bound to happen. The trickiest part of being a GM for this team will always be signing FA's, it'll be interesting when MU decides to go after a bigger name FA. I think he knows this and is going to continue to try and stockpile young talent/picks to eventually make big trades because he knows signing big name players here is next to impossible.
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:35 PM   #522 (permalink)
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BC is a good trader, drafter and might be ok with signings, but in this market signing higher end players is very difficult and overpaying for FA's is bound to happen. The trickiest part of being a GM for this team will always be signing FA's, it'll be interesting when MU decides to go after a bigger name FA. I think he knows this and is going to continue to try and stockpile you talent/picks to eventually make big trades because he knows signing big name players here is next to impossible.
if we're going to overpay for FAs, we'll end up in the same spot. Period. Masai has to find ways to avoid that, because the CBA is even more unforgiving now.

I disagree this is a Toronto's problem. I'll be the first one to agree that getting the top tier free agents to come here is impossible, but anybody else is fair game. Sure, there will be the odd redneck who thinks the metric system is a tragedy and that we drive on the wrong side of the road and use monopoly money, but by and large, most players will come here gladly.

the true problem is that in free agency ALL teams overpay, unless they get max level guys who are really, really good (and thus worth more than max). It's the nature of a free market, in any kind of seller market, you will end up overpaying. Most of the time, and that's the key - getting a deal is difficult, but possible (see the 8M deal milsap got).
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:39 PM   #523 (permalink)
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BC wanted to skip steps - you can't (you can try, but you will usually fail). He did that every time, so it's clearly part of his mindset. The only time where was somewhat justified to risk it was the first season (we had to show Bosh commitment to winning to get him to sign) and the turgoglu deal (for the same reasons). Everything else - he didn't HAVE to do it, waiting would have been the better option - save that he wanted to win sooner.
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:43 PM   #524 (permalink)
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the only other pick was Bargnani ... who had the talent to justify the position, just lacked in areas that were pretty difficult to quantify for a guy with no college experience. The really puzzling fact is that in europe he was (if I recall), a pretty good rebounder for his age.

and before toronto, he also drafted nash, marion and amare around ~10th - that's a hall of famer and two multiple all stars drafted very late in lottery.
Like most resumes, you try and camouflage the not so good stuff. In this case, many of us said for a while that Colangelo would go down in flames by stubbornly handcuffing himself to Bargnani.....for 7 years?

Colangelo did some good things particularly in the draft, but now that I really think about it....

-He gave Bargnani a $50 million contract

-He was vital to forming the "big 3" in Miami by giving them cap room

-He let Bosh trick him, walked away for nothing and the franchise suffered terribly

-The free agent signings were quite often useless....Hedo, Kapono, etc

-When he would sign or trade someone, regardless of the reason, it would be out in the media and then the rug would get yanked....Calderon-Chandler, Matt Barnes, John Salmons

- No playoffs for 5 years yet no lottery pick, no cap space. You're fired.
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:45 PM   #525 (permalink)
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looking back to barg's career, you don't think he had #1 level talent? He could have been very special, few players that size have his quickness and shooting. The problem is he never improved much after his first 2-3 seasons, and mostly regressed in all other areas.
Put lowry's mindset and demar's work ethic in barg's body and you get a hall of famer imo - he could have been that good. He was better than aldridge in their first 2-3 seasons too.

and the GM poll after the draft had Bargnani and Aldridge tied as the best players in 5 years - for whatever that's worth.
You know we can do this all night with the Bargs thing, so I'll stop. But to answer your questions, 1) no I don't think Bargs had #1 level talent 2) no I don't think he was quick, I think quick and Bargs in the same sentence should be a crime 3) By the 3rd season we knew he didn't have Lowry's mindset or Demar's work ethic 4) I don't think he was better than Aldridge by year 3. 5) I would like to see that GM poll now.
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:47 PM   #526 (permalink)
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He meant Lowry.
The response was a quote to Colangelo's status. I'd be shocked if Lowry went there tho'.
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:47 PM   #527 (permalink)
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Ross at 8th pick, JV at 5th, Davis at 13th, Derozan at 9th.....er just ignore any picks that happened before that and never let that man make bandaid trades. Go Pistons.
Colangelo probably did as much if not more good here than bad, and his time with the suns

he is a decent drafting GM atleast...not quite a masiah with the trades tho
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Old 04-14-2014, 12:58 AM   #528 (permalink)
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Is this the "what are they saying" thread or a place to put revisionist history about BC?
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:27 AM   #529 (permalink)
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You know we can do this all night with the Bargs thing, so I'll stop. But to answer your questions, 1) no I don't think Bargs had #1 level talent 2) no I don't think he was quick, I think quick and Bargs in the same sentence should be a crime 3) By the 3rd season we knew he didn't have Lowry's mindset or Demar's work ethic 4) I don't think he was better than Aldridge by year 3. 5) I would like to see that GM poll now.
your points are mostly about why we didn't trade him, which is a whole different discussion (I would argue that before those famous 13 games, he was on the trading block - at least BC was critical about him publicly that previous summer).

And I didn't say he was better than aldridge by year 3, I said during the first 3 years he was better - to counter your claim that aldridge was the obvious choice. And come on, are you saying he wasn't quick? Even before he added a ton of bulk when they were trying to make a center out of him, he was quick for his size (not for his position mind you, but for his size - I grant you there are much quicker PFs out there, but not at 7'+ and 250lbs). As for the poll, here it is:

NBA.com GM Survey: Rookies, Defense, International

with my apologies, it was Bargnani and tyrus (another super talent who ended up even worst).

In any case, the argument was whether the Bargnani pick was good at the time - I, to conclude my side of the argument, continue to claim he was #1 talent that didn't just pan out for various reasons.
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Old 04-16-2014, 09:51 PM   #530 (permalink)
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Felton, MWP and 2018 first for Lowry...

Dolan didnt want to give another pick, Jackson didnt want it to give Shump...

F*** Dolan... With Lowry we'd have been in the playoffs and probably in ECF
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Old 04-16-2014, 09:52 PM   #531 (permalink)
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Not much going on there the Knicks forum

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Let's go out of this season with a win

Then for the time being, hold a Canadian flag for the Raptors to beat the Nets
damn i would have to root for the raptors

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Felton, MWP and 2018 first for Lowry...

Dolan didnt want to give another pick, Jackson didnt want it to give Shump...

F*** Dolan... With Lowry we'd have been in the playoffs and probably in ECF
Most-Likely we'd switched places with Raptors.. We in, they out of playoffs had that trade gone thru
And we'd laugh cuz we'd be the ones fleecing them back for that Bargnani trade
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:45 PM   #532 (permalink)
looking fwd to an EC Final showing!

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What are nets fans saying??? Let's get pumped
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:03 AM   #533 (permalink)
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I like that the Nets tanked for 6th only because it's made all of Canada mad for whatever reason


They have an inferiority complex because they are Canadian and have been the laughing stock of the league for years now.
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Man, Raptors fans are annoying.
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I see that the pussy wagon has rolled into town.

**** all Raptor fans.
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why are craptor fans talking ****...........they havent won a playoff series in a decade **** bums.
.
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Old 04-17-2014, 01:59 AM   #534 (permalink)
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.
Lmao, the season ending bitching.
Dont worry knicks fans theres always next year.





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Old 04-17-2014, 02:08 AM   #535 (permalink)
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lol nets fans....they win 1st rounds sometimes...the nj nets were attrocious for years

raps have a shitty history, but really r nets that much better?
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Old 04-17-2014, 02:16 AM   #536 (permalink)
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lol nets fans....they win 1st rounds sometimes...the nj nets were attrocious for years

raps have a shitty history, but really r nets that much better?
They were in the finals 2 straight years, and had the pleasure of having JKidd in his prime leading them into the playoffs every season. So yes, they have been that much better than us over the last 20 years.
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:20 AM   #537 (permalink)
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Trash talk already underway, as we are 2 days away from Game 1

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I cant see anything but toronto blowing us out in game 1:

- on the road
- we have been playing like garbage
- we will be super rusty since no one played
- sloppy play seems likely with kidd no emphasizing we compete the last week or so
- raps will be fired up as will their fans

i see this as alike a 108-100 win for the raps in a game thats never close and they lead by 10-20 for most if the game.

seriously fck kidd
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Valanciunas will get embarassed by Plumlee like he usually does
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I'm not excited about this one either. I think we're the better team and I think we match up well with them but they've been playing really well and our guys have barely played together recently. Livingston hasn't played since the Miami win. AA hasn't played in awhile. Deron hasn't been knocking down 3s.

Hopefully we come out firing since we're rested and the Raptors are nervous.

JJ should KILL in the post. No wing on this team can dream of guarding him inside.

It's game 1 on the road. Pressure is completely on them.
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Old 04-17-2014, 04:13 AM   #538 (permalink)
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They were in the finals 2 straight years, and had the pleasure of having JKidd in his prime leading them into the playoffs every season. So yes, they have been that much better than us over the last 20 years.
yea they are def better historywise, but they also set the record for fewest wins er they started like 0-20

everyone has brutal stretches, they are not world beaters, and have had only a handful of good seasons

also Jkidd in his prime......and they never went all the way
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:53 AM   #539 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

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ross can guard JJ in the post, I think very well.
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Old 04-17-2014, 08:52 AM   #540 (permalink)
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ross can guard JJ in the post, I think very well.
He sure can. Nets fans are just that fucking stupid that they only follow one team and nothing else. They probably couldn't even name our starting 5
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