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-   -   What is the right way to rebuild this team? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/what-right-way-rebuild-team-24223.html)

KoolAid 12-09-2012 07:09 PM

What is the right way to rebuild this team?
 
Obviously we have some nice assets but this is not working. My question to you is, what do you think the correct method of fixing this team is. There are generally 2 trains of thought that are popular when it comes to rebuilding a team: Tanking, and trading for good players that would make us contend. Which do you think is right?

Ex2k 12-09-2012 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoolAid (Post 718016)
Obviously we have some nice assets but this is not working. My question to you is, what do you think the correct method of fixing this team is. There are generally 2 trains of thought that are popular when it comes to rebuilding a team: Tanking, and trading for good players that would make us contend. Which do you think is right?

1. Fire BC
2. Fire Casey (maybe keep him till end of the year)
3. Trade assets and bad contracts away for draft picks
4. Keep young players on decent contracts around
5. Continue to tank while developing rookies
6. Draft well based on best player available.

Don Vito 12-09-2012 07:19 PM

Fire Colangelo
Trade Bargnani
Trade Jose
Lure in a star player
Establish a winning culture

MBailey85 12-09-2012 07:26 PM

You can't assume that they're just gonna sign whoever in FA.
You can't assume they're gonna get a good pick and get definite talent from the draft,who'll contribute largely right away.

You can't designate a player or two as the franchise player,hub or someone you're building around since you don't have that.

They need to trade away the lame duck players (good contract or not) and add pieces that are going to benefit the team in the near future.

Before all this,they need to decide whether they are predominantly an offensive team or defensive team,fast break/transition or half court, zone or man to man and take it from there. A large part of the Raptors problem is they haven't settled on a scheme and haven't found the right players for it.

They need to analyze who really wants to be here and build this team into a winner and stick with those players. Everybody else who wants to treat every other game as an exhibition, trade them,waive them, DNPCD them or send them to the D-League. Between Ross,DeRozan,Davis, and Valanciunas(all players drafted in the last 4 years) they have enough prospects and don't need anymore unless an Anothony Davis,LeBron James talent prospects falls into their lap. They need solid veterans and experienced starters to fill the void of lack of leadership and accountability.

Bmats7returns 12-09-2012 07:41 PM

When we get a talent like Bosh/VC... do absolutely everything they say. Let them be a player/GM the way Wilkens was a player/coach.

That's the only way to even conceive of stars staying in Toronto for more than a couple of years. Give them the Cleveland-Lebron treatment here.

That's the place to start I think.

Ataf 12-09-2012 07:42 PM

Just get vets. This team is too damn young and inconsistent. (Does incude trading players who seem to be forever young and inconsistent... Bargs)

No more tanking, we have young assets and talent. Get leadership/vets to guide them.
edit: been saying that @ free agency... I think (Not the trade Bargs bit, but hey.. I have no clue on what I'll get from that guy.)

Chito 12-09-2012 08:03 PM

Get rid of Casey. He's an awful head coach. Sure he was the defensive coach when the Mavs won. But he wasn't making decisions on who plays and not, nor manage a game when he was there. These last few games, the player substitution have been really bad. He doesn't seem to know what to do to stop the momentum of the other team. The Clippers when on a 10-1 run. Did he do anything? Nope. Waited until it was too late and then substituted Lowry for Calderon, etc... didn't even call a freaking time out. He should be fired.

Dark Knight 12-09-2012 08:06 PM

I would honestly look to trade Lowry. In our current position, even the playoffs look like a bit of a stretch. I would dangle Lowry in the trade market, and try and pry away a first round pick and/or a young controllable player. We need to shed some salary, start from the ground up.

Dark Knight 12-09-2012 08:15 PM

Just an example trade of what I think an ideal return for Lowry would be.

To Dallas:

Lowry

To Toronto:

Beaubois, Crowder, Wright, first round pick.

This puts in a perfect position to rebuild. Gets us some young players and another pick to add to the stash.

niggles 12-09-2012 09:13 PM

I'd start by keeping Colangelo here till one month before the end of his contract and make him suffer the abuse that he's earned.

I'd make him take questions at every post-game news conference.

I would not let him make any personnel moves.

I'd have him introduced before every home game.

Don Vito 12-09-2012 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niggles (Post 718066)
I'd start by keeping Colangelo here till one month before the end of his contract and make him suffer the abuse that he's earned.

I'd make him take questions at every post-game news conference.

I would not let him make any personnel moves.

I'd have him introduced before every home game.

LOL

KoolAid 12-09-2012 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Knight (Post 718053)
Just an example trade of what I think an ideal return for Lowry would be.

To Dallas:

Lowry

To Toronto:

Beaubois, Crowder, Wright, first round pick.

This puts in a perfect position to rebuild. Gets us some young players and another pick to add to the stash.

I agree with you. I posted a somewhat similar trade, a three-way w/ LAC and Utah that nets us Bledsoe and Golden State's first in exchange for Lowry and Lucas. I hate to see Lowry go but this team is stuck in limbo and it sucks.

Kuzzy 12-10-2012 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex2k (Post 718019)
1. Fire BC
2. Fire Casey (maybe keep him till end of the year)
3. Trade assets and bad contracts away for draft picks
4. Keep young players on decent contracts around
5. Continue to tank while developing rookies
6. Draft well based on best player available.

It really is that simple. Yet, no Raptor GM has EVER managed to do it.

LuffyGear2 12-10-2012 05:16 AM

fire bc and casey, trade or wave everyone away, who has proven, that he has no future in this franchise and that they won't ever be championship material (bargs, derozan, amir...), let our young players (ross, jv, davis...) develope under some traded for (or kept) vets (keep pietrus, maybe jose... and trade for one or two vets more) and some day draft a future star, trade for an allstar and use the saved capspace in the free agency and the rock this league :cookie:

it sounds much to easy, this can't work :lol:

RaptorsVictim 12-10-2012 06:01 AM

First of all, the fans have to stop going to any game. I mean we have to send a strong massage to the owners and the management of this team. As long as the tickets sales are ok, the owners and the management would not care about any thing. After that, both BC and DC must hit the road.

RAPMAN 12-10-2012 09:02 AM

Want to rebuild, get rid of the losing culture. Get rid of players who have accepted losing as the norm. Its starts with Bargnani! You don't get rid players like Lowry who wants to win. If you want to rebuild the right way, start with players who want to fight, compete, and want to win.

FLO 12-10-2012 09:23 AM

-Tank hard with certain players in mind when you pick
-Don't give huge contracts to mediocre players
-Have goals in mind for free agency that you think will make you an upper echelon team

DDUnreal 12-10-2012 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaptorsVictim (Post 718217)
First of all, the fans have to stop going to any game. I mean we have to send a strong massage to the owners and the management of this team. As long as the tickets sales are ok, the owners and the management would not care about any thing. After that, both BC and DC must hit the road.

+1 isn't enough. Unfortunately most of the seats are filled by leafs owners & casual fans that go usually to see the other team. If there was no guarantee of craptors tickets with the leafs I wonder how poor the sales would be the last few years.

carp 12-10-2012 11:09 AM

Everybody that was on the floor during that fourth quarter collapse against the clippers.... get rid of all five! It starts with those five laying down. I refuse to watch that garbage.

woodchuck 12-10-2012 04:39 PM

I don't think this team/ownership has the guts / ambition to adopt a long term "tank" rebuilding plan like OKC or Charlotte right now. I think that much has been clear when the new ownership came in and had a chance to change direction of the team, and yet BC had the green light to do the "lets win now" moves he did or tried to do.
I think that shows a lot.
The ownership was flash, they want to attract fans, they don't want to risk losing any more ticket/TV money, they don't want the team to be terrible anymore. They'd rather be lower seed in the playoffs for a decade than start a serious rebuilding process.
That's my impression anyway.

So, what's to hope for? Well, long term, the hope has to be that the team "lucks into" contention. The way Memphis Grizzlies did when Marc Gasol and ZBO exceeded expectations. Or the Pacers did when they got Granger, Hibbert and George with mediocre picks.
It's possible, even if it's not the best approach.

And short term, I think there's no reason to do anything but try get better this year.
You still have rookies to develop. Some of the vets body language right now --- i'm not impressed. That has to change. For the sake of the rookies, for one. And secondly, simply because there's really no point to tank when the pick is likely gone, and it's a bad draft on top of it.
So i'd say make a trade and get some really good vets on short deals.


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