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-   -   What is "no mans land?" (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/what-no-mans-land-26398.html)

Thug 01-21-2014 07:35 PM

What is "no mans land?"
 
With Masai Ujiri saying that we will not end up in no mans land. I want to hold him accountable if we do. :mu:

Only one problem though, what exactly is no mans land?

I know it leads to years of being a treadmill team that picks outside of the lottery but what better really is the 11th pick than the 9th pick? Where do we draw the line for what is no mans land and what isn't?

What do you consider to be no mans land?

LX 01-21-2014 07:38 PM

I could be wrong, but I thought he said we would not get stuck in no man's land, in which case it's going to take more than one particular set of results to hold him accountable for.

'trane 01-21-2014 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thug (Post 857774)
With Masai Ujiri saying that we will not end up in no mans land. I want to hold him accountable if we do. :mu:

Only one problem though, what exactly is no mans land?

I know it leads to years of being a treadmill team that picks outside of the lottery but what better really is the 11th pick than the 9th pick? Where do we draw the line for what is no mans land and what isn't?

What do you consider to be no mans land?

Our franchise is the definition of no man's land.

Thug 01-21-2014 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 857776)
I could be wrong, but I thought he said we would not get stuck in no man's land, in which case it's going to take more than one particular set of results to hold him accountable for.

True, but I interpreted that as being relevant to how we will finish the year this season.

LOG 01-21-2014 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 857776)
I could be wrong, but I thought he said we would not get stuck in no man's land, in which case it's going to take more than one particular set of results to hold him accountable for.

“We will not be caught in no-man's land”

LX 01-21-2014 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thug (Post 857779)
True, but I interpreted that as being relevant to how we will finish the year this season.

What about the end of this season means they are stuck anywhere? Or caught I should say?

woodchuck 01-21-2014 07:58 PM

The Rockets when they got the 14th pick for 3 years in a row were the living definition, IMO.

It's a team that picks very late in the lottery or just outside the lottery (11-20, or even 9-10 in most drafts), has no salary flexibility to sign free agents in the near future and has players without much upside.

moremilk 01-21-2014 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thug (Post 857779)
True, but I interpreted that as being relevant to how we will finish the year this season.

hard to put a definition, with a gun to my head, anything between a 7th-10th spot in the east would be the closest.

the thing is, we could be 6th with 40 wins and an up and down play like we've seen over the past 2 weeks, and that would be a no man's land type of result.

In essence, no man's land is a team that can't, objectively speaking, compete for a title without major changes, while at the same time, not bad enough to get a top 5 pick. Despite what some would argue around here, drafting in the 6th-15th spot is very unlikely to bring you elite talent. If you draft long enough in that range, and you draft well, you may eventually construct a winner, but it may take 7 years like it did for Indiana.

The team we saw in December, if for real, can be argued that by adding a major piece is close to contending. And, as Dan explained, we would have the ability to both retain the core, and add that major piece. Lots of things would have to go right of course, but that's par for the course, no magic bullets exist in the nba.

So the question Masai has to answer (to himself) between now and middle of february is whether that team was true or false. Luckily for him (and for us), we have the perfect schedule to test with. Not insanely hard, not ridiculously easy either. A balanced sked, tilted a bit to the difficult side due to that west road trip. The team is no longer a novelty, people take us seriously now and give us full effort, we can't invoke the weak conference argument in this context and we can't blame complacency because last few games clearly shown what happens when we don't go 100%.

I am very confident that if we don't perform well over the next 3 weeks, lowry and demar and possibly amir will not be raptors by the end of the summer and we'll compete for a top 5 pick next season. I am almost as confident that if we do perform well, at least 4 our starters will be on the roster next october, most likely all 5 of them.

halphbreedballer 01-21-2014 08:02 PM

The second option is no mans land.

Which is where we have been 3 out of the last 5 years...

Carlos Danger 01-21-2014 08:23 PM

11-14th ovr

KoolAid 01-21-2014 09:13 PM

Not good enough to contend now or in the future with your core, while also being too good to tank and also being financially stuck.


So basically the Raptors.

Owned 01-21-2014 10:47 PM

Pretty much us right now.
Hopeless up and down results, sitting in 3/4 spot with no chance of picking high in the draft.

Ammo 01-21-2014 11:16 PM

I think there are 2 kinds of no-man's land....


Milwaukee Bucks on the low ground. Don't make the playoffs often, if they do, 1st round fodder, never bad enough for great picks and attract no stars.


Atlanta Hawks on the high ground. Playoffs but never illusions of championships. (This could be where we're headed)

Ball Don't Lie 01-21-2014 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoolAid (Post 857812)
Not good enough to contend now or in the future with your core, while also being too good to tank and also being financially stuck.


So basically the Raptors.

Bingo. It really does suck to be a Raptors fan.

LX 01-21-2014 11:40 PM

Up and down with really good ups, and not so bad downs, while playing two sophomores in key starting roles, and flexibility available before too long, an ownership prepared to spend, and good asset management shown by the gm, does not reek of being caught in anything terrible. It does not suck that bad to be a Raptors fan. It has gotten better under new ownership, and there is no reason to suggest that it will not continue to get better.

JoeyJoJo Shabbadu 01-21-2014 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'trane (Post 857777)
Our franchise is the definition of no man's land.

How about you take your own advice and stop being so negative.

Ball Don't Lie 01-22-2014 12:59 AM

Quote:

It does not suck that bad to be a Raptors fan. It has gotten better under new ownership, and there is no reason to suggest that it will not continue to get better.
I think we've gone through the same scenario enough to be sceptical, and I dont think we're wrong to be that way. We were essentially in the exact same scenario just 5-6 years ago, so I think it's just too early to say its gotten better already.

I'll admit it's gotten better when we've got a roster that can contend for the playoffs and beyond for years to come, and that is still at least a year or two away, IF Masai makes the right moves this off season especially.

I can see this going in either direction right now. Don't forget how enthralled this fan base was with BC in his first year and what he was going to do with all of the flexibility and young pieces. I won't be convinced about Masais plan until I see real results, and I think that's justified given what we've had to go through as fans since the inception of this franchise. I like Masai, but let's wait and see what direction he takes this team in before we say we're going to get better and better.

TORaptor4Ever 01-22-2014 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie (Post 857853)
I think we've gone through the same scenario enough to be sceptical, and I dont think we're wrong to be that way. We were essentially in the exact same scenario just 5-6 years ago, so I think it's just too early to say its gotten better already.

I'll admit it's gotten better when we've got a roster that can contend for the playoffs and beyond for years to come, and that is still at least a year or two away, IF Masai makes the right moves this off season especially.

I can see this going in either direction right now. Don't forget how enthralled this fan base was with BC in his first year and what he was going to do with all of the flexibility and young pieces. I won't be convinced about Masais plan until I see real results, and I think that's justified given what we've had to go through as fans since the inception of this franchise. I like Masai, but let's wait and see what direction he takes this team in before we say we're going to get better and better.

While this is true I hope that people remember that it takes more than 1 year for a GM to really put his stamp on a team.

If this team is where it is now 3 years from now THEN it'll be cause for concern.

Toby 01-22-2014 01:56 AM

No man's land for Toronto, would be not getting involved in the trade frenzy for Carmelo Anthony. Maybe a LeBron James. You guys need a clear #1. Right now you have a couple 2's, a bunch of 3's, and too many 4's.

TORaptor4Ever 01-22-2014 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby (Post 857860)
No man's land for Toronto, would be not getting involved in the trade frenzy for Carmelo Anthony. Maybe a LeBron James. You guys need a clear #1. Right now you have a couple 2's, a bunch of 3's, and too many 4's.

If Melo ever comes here I will stop watching the Raps.

How about we do a 3-team deal... you can have him... we take LMA? ;)


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