What I DO NOT want to see tonight. - Page 6
Old 02-16-2011, 03:02 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Hypothetical question:

Consider a future where DeMar DeRozan makes youtube videos and uses social media like crazy. That's not hard right? He gets lots of attention. No?

Some reporter asks him if he'd like to be an All-Star next year, and maybe eventually be seen in the same light as some of the guys he watches on tape now. He says yeah - it's what motivates him to put in the work that he puts in: to be the best player he can be and see his team win a ton of games and get the kind of results that he's always gotten or wanted to get.

Is that a big problem? Is it only a problem if the team sucks again? What if he improves and makes the AS team, but the Raptors fail to make the playoffs? Should they just trade his ass so he can get booed?

My take - we should get talent in any form possible and try to keep it, and not be so concerned with the psychoanalysis as long as that talent is clearly being shown. It seems we either long for star players or decry them when they act like star players. Bosh did not make any kinds of demands on the franchise. He did not make the team all about him. To me that is a big plus where the behavior of start players is concerned. If we can get another guy that works to better himself and leaves it up to management to put the best team possible together and then does what the team asks of him on the court, that would be pretty nice. If we're really lucky we get a guy that is that much better than Bosh in terms of overall impact. But that doesn't mean that we were shit out of luck to have had Bosh for 7 years, or to possibly see a guy like DeMar follow in similar footstep.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:02 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by b55bgc View Post
PLease do not be ignorant. He played with bunch of hacks and europe rejects.
CHeck his stats and shooting percentages. He played great. Sorry if your hatred blocks your common sense.
speaking of ignorance and hatred blocking common sense...

europe rejects and hacks?

ap was a 2-time euroleague mvp. garbo was a long time euro league standout. even will soloman won championships in europe. jose is a leader of the spanish national team. Bargs was one of europes bright young stars before he declared for the draft.

none of these guys are in any way, shape or form rejects of european basketball.

you seem to just have ahate for european players. and that hate is blocking your common sense.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:03 PM   #103 (permalink)
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PLease do not be ignorant. He played with bunch of hacks and europe rejects.
CHeck his stats and shooting percentages. He played great. Sorry if your hatred blocks your common sense.
he actually made valid points... don't be ignorant could be attributed to your comments too.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:07 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Hypothetical question:

Consider a future where DeMar DeRozan makes youtube videos and uses social media like crazy. That's not hard right? He gets lots of attention. No?

Some reporter asks him if he'd like to be an All-Star next year, and maybe eventually be seen in the same light as some of the guys he watches on tape now. He says yeah - it's what motivates him to put in the work that he puts in: to be the best player he can be and see his team win a ton of games and get the kind of results that he's always gotten or wanted to get.

Is that a big problem? Is it only a problem if the team sucks again? What if he improves and makes the AS team, but the Raptors fail to make the playoffs? Should they just trade his ass so he can get booed?

My take - we should get talent in any form possible and try to keep it, and not be so concerned with the psychoanalysis as long as that talent is clearly being shown. It seems we either long for star players or decry them when they act like star players. Bosh did not make any kinds of demands on the franchise. He did not make the team all about him. To me that is a big plus where the behavior of start players is concerned. If we can get another guy that works to better himself and leaves it up to management to put the best team possible together and then does what the team asks of him on the court, that would be pretty nice. If we're really lucky we get a guy that is that much better than Bosh in terms of overall impact. But that doesn't mean that we were shit out of luck to have had Bosh for 7 years, or to possibly see a guy like DeMar follow in similar footstep.
i don't know anyone that is saying we are shit outr of luck for having Bosh for 7 years.

and i would have no problem with derozan doing any of that if he decided he wanted to leave, was up front about it, and didn't make comments like the caged wolf nonsense, the league pass nonsense and the smells different nonsense. it's the way he left and the type of leadership he provided when he was here that leaves a bitter taste for me.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:15 PM   #105 (permalink)
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speaking of ignorance and hatred blocking common sense...

europe rejects and hacks?

ap was a 2-time euroleague mvp. garbo was a long time euro league standout. even will soloman won championships in europe. jose is a leader of the spanish national team. Bargs was one of europes bright young stars before he declared for the draft.

none of these guys are in any way, shape or form rejects of european basketball.

you seem to just have ahate for european players. and that hate is blocking your common sense.
was actually referring to will solomon, and garbo, jamario moon,
I wasnt referring to jose or Bargnani, i love those guys. But you cant honestly say that Bosh was surrounded by great playoff calibre players.

I remember the year they made it to the playoffs. The team collectively had a handfull of playoff games played previous to that.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:17 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by b55bgc View Post
was actually referring to will solomon, and garbo, jamario moon,
I wasnt referring to jose or Bargnani, i love those guys. But you cant honestly say that Bosh was surrounded by great playoff calibre players.

I remember the year they made it to the playoffs. The team collectively had a handfull of playoff games played previous to that.
none of those guys that you entioned were euroleague rejects. careful how you throw around a word like 'ignorance'.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:19 PM   #107 (permalink)
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he actually made valid points... don't be ignorant could be attributed to your comments too.
said the poster who made the following comment

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We miss Hedo more than Bosh... We're terrible without him.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:25 PM   #108 (permalink)
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said the poster who made the following comment
guilty... though I'm certain you understood that was a sarcastic response to an overly angry post.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:29 PM   #109 (permalink)
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i don't know anyone that is saying we are shit outr of luck for having Bosh for 7 years.

and i would have no problem with derozan doing any of that if he decided he wanted to leave, was up front about it, and didn't make comments like the caged wolf nonsense, the league pass nonsense and the smells different nonsense. it's the way he left and the type of leadership he provided when he was here that leaves a bitter taste for me.
Bosh was pretty up front about his desire to win and making that a big part of the decision he made in free agency.

He said things about league pass? Oh my. You're so sensitive as to get a bitter taste from that? He said the city was different and smelled different? And you think it doesn't? I know everytime I come back to Toronto from somewhere else I get the same sense. He said that it was difficult for him to handle at first, having never been out of the US before, but that he came to love it. But you get a bitter taste?

I'll agree that that it would have been nice if there could have been a nice clean break at the end. That just was not going to happen with the position Colangelo took, and which you appear to support with your comment about leadership. And I can live with that to an extent if Colangelo gets his head out of his ass and puts a team together that doesn't require Steve Nash to get somewhere.

The fact is that he lost his best chance at a ring when Joe Johnson walked on him so that he could have his own team. Still - Bryan managed to get a lot out of Diaw and whoever else he saw any kind of potential in, to the point where it seemed like losing JJ didn't matter. But it was all due to Nash. Duh. That's how the dude won the MVP two years straight. Bosh wasn't able to bail the guy out like Stevie did. And he still ended up leaving like Joe, and that must hurt. But what really makes me question his senses, is that he still thought he could prove everyone wrong and overachieve greatly with this fucking team. Earth to Bryan - there is no Steve Nash in the vicinity.

I don't see why the GM could not have looked past the deficiencies of his star player that was on the way out, and looked to building a team properly. Too much of what he said was simply self-serving. As much as Bosh might have failed, the guy with the supposed track record failed mightily, and all-too-happily looks at Bosh as a way of having people put blame elsewhere. And yeah - Bosh helped his cause enough. But seriously - as a fan of this team I am not made all that confident by sensibilities that trash former players rather than move forward with a clear plan that should have been in place all along regardless.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:30 PM   #110 (permalink)
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none of those guys that you entioned were euroleague rejects. careful how you throw around a word like 'ignorance'.
I may have been harsh with saying they were all rejects. I didnt think you guys were so sensitive. But really though. Where are they now??????????????

The players that were once with Bosh..... Where are they now? And i dont wanna hear about players that are so far done the bench.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:40 PM   #111 (permalink)
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WAYYYY different dude, and you know that.

To use your examples, AWill and Mo, both would have stayed if they could. I am a raptor fan, and I hate every other player and team when they are playing us. Mo and Alvin included.

Mo kissing the floor his first game back, pleased me as a raptor fan...if I was a NO fan, I would have been some pissed off.

Some players do deserve hero's welcomes when the come back...legends. Not Bosh's.

Maybe when he retires I will clap....before the game I want my team to win..Fuck him...Fuck them... Fuck Mo...Fuck Alvin...Fuck Vince...Fuck Bosh..Fuck Sean Marks

Nobody liked Bosh on the team and nobody wants to say it.

LMAO this guy's saying fuck Alvin when I swear he is an assistant on the team.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:59 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Bosh was pretty up front about his desire to win and making that a big part of the decision he made in free agency.

He said things about league pass? Oh my. You're so sensitive as to get a bitter taste from that? He said the city was different and smelled different? And you think it doesn't? I know everytime I come back to Toronto from somewhere else I get the same sense. He said that it was difficult for him to handle at first, having never been out of the US before, but that he came to love it. But you get a bitter taste?

I'll agree that that it would have been nice if there could have been a nice clean break at the end. That just was not going to happen with the position Colangelo took, and which you appear to support with your comment about leadership. And I can live with that to an extent if Colangelo gets his head out of his ass and puts a team together that doesn't require Steve Nash to get somewhere.

The fact is that he lost his best chance at a ring when Joe Johnson walked on him so that he could have his own team. Still - Bryan managed to get a lot out of Diaw and whoever else he saw any kind of potential in, to the point where it seemed like losing JJ didn't matter. But it was all due to Nash. Duh. That's how the dude won the MVP two years straight. Bosh wasn't able to bail the guy out like Stevie did. And he still ended up leaving like Joe, and that must hurt. But what really makes me question his senses, is that he still thought he could prove everyone wrong and overachieve greatly with this fucking team. Earth to Bryan - there is no Steve Nash in the vicinity.

I don't see why the GM could not have looked past the deficiencies of his star player that was on the way out, and looked to building a team properly. Too much of what he said was simply self-serving. As much as Bosh might have failed, the guy with the supposed track record failed mightily, and all-too-happily looks at Bosh as a way of having people put blame elsewhere. And yeah - Bosh helped his cause enough. But seriously - as a fan of this team I am not made all that confident by sensibilities that trash former players rather than move forward with a clear plan that should have been in place all along regardless.
i'm not trashing bosh. i never really have. i like the guy and think he was a very good player for us. he left in a pretty unclassy way, especially after the whole 'i want to be the #1 guy and i have that opportunity here in toronto and it would go against my dreams to give that up' comment.

it's not that i'm sensitive and feel personally insulted, but if a guy is going to leave his former franchise high and dry the classy thing to do is give them props on teh way out. he didn't do that, so all i've really siad is that he deserves whatever the multiplicity of our fan base gives to him tonight.

i don't see what's wrong with saying that. you painted a hypothetical and i gave you a hypothetical response.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:08 PM   #113 (permalink)
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was actually referring to will solomon, and garbo, jamario moon,
I wasnt referring to jose or Bargnani, i love those guys. But you cant honestly say that Bosh was surrounded by great playoff calibre players.

I remember the year they made it to the playoffs. The team collectively had a handfull of playoff games played previous to that.
The hilarious part of this comment is that Garbajosa was not only an invaluable player to this team, but he was also a player that made those around him better. ha. ha.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:16 PM   #114 (permalink)
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LMAO this guy's saying fuck Alvin when I swear he is an assistant on the team.
Context my friend context. I was asked if Alvin was on another team would I say it....the answer is yes.

Also I am not "this guy" I am Benzo.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:20 PM   #115 (permalink)
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+100000000000. im sick of TORAP flooding this thread with his fanboy opinions
My "fanboy" opinions are shared by LX, bjjs and Claudius among others... knowledgebale and respected posters all of them.... so I'm fine with that.

If you don't like what's in the thread... don't read it. Simple.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:21 PM   #116 (permalink)
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What has two thumbs and likes to bone your mom? THIS GUY!

Last edited by carp; 02-16-2011 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:21 PM   #117 (permalink)
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My "fanboy" opinions are shared by LX, bjjs and Claudius among others... knowledgebale and respected posters all of them.... so I'm fine with that.

If you don't like what's in the thread... don't read it. Simple.
[2006] LX sucks balls...pompous prick who loves to hear himself talk[/2006]
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:29 PM   #118 (permalink)
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[2006] LX sucks balls...pompous prick who loves to hear himself talk[/2006]
And he WAS a pompous prick! But he was also (and still is!) very knowledgeable!

Nice find Mr. Archivist! Can you tell me what I ate back 2003 too?
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:32 PM   #119 (permalink)
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not to mention that garbo was voted onto the all-world team.

trane - I don't think we're all that far apart, aside from seeing Bosh's motivations a little differently. No biggie. But I do think there is a tendency for people to see the star players in a negative light, and to hang onto that way too long. Bosh just didn't prove worth getting worked up about in any way. I would have liked to have seen him stay, but then I would have liked to have seen results from the team over the last few years. And I'm really worried that this team gets defined by the guys that left rather than the guys that we ever get to see here.

Vince had great talent and did very little with it. I was happy when he left and never got into singling him out other than to illustrate the need for a strong team rather than a guy that tries to dictate everything and then doesn't deliver. McGrady never understood the team game either, and his lack of understanding saddened me. Bosh is an unselfish guy that could help any team immensely, for a high price, and maybe too high, so lets move on, and let's hope for A.-some talent that exceeds any that we've seen thus far in terms of impact, or B.-such a strong well-balanced team that it can sustain some loss of talent in any given year. 16 years in and we've not seen either sort of scenario come to fruition, and that's pretty disheartening. And yet people are happy to overstate one guy's crimes, understate his abilities, and make a whole season about the chance to see him get a hard foul. That disheartens me all the more, because maybe we get what we ask for, which really isn't an awful lot. I want so much more than that. Can we have people attend every game after tonight and scream and yell for Colangelo's head? Because he played a bigger part in the team's fortunes than Bosh, didn't really behave so well when the season was over himself, and maybe needs to know that some of us want more than pretty words and excuses.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:33 PM   #120 (permalink)
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hey guys - I'm right here - I can see your posts!
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