What does a Top 3 pick in an NBA draft get you?
Old 12-17-2013, 08:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default What does a Top 3 pick in an NBA draft get you?

2012

1. New Orleans Hornets (Anthony Davis—Kentucky)
2. Charlotte Bobcats (Michael Kidd-Gilchrist—Kentucky)
3. Washington Wizards (Bradley Beal—Florida)

2011

1. Cleveland Cavaliers (Kyrie Irving—Duke)
2. Minnesota Timberwolves (Derrick Williams—Arizona)
3. Utah Jazz (Enes Kanter—Kentucky)

2010

1. Washington Wizards (John Wall—Kentucky)
2. Philadelphia 76ers (Evan Turner—Ohio State)
3. New jersey Nets (Derrick Favors—Georgia Tech)

2009

1. Los Angeles Clippers (Blake Griffin—Oklahoma)
2. Memphis Grizzlies (Hasheem Thabeet—Connecticut)
3. Oklahoma City Thunder (James Hardin—Arizona State)

2008

1. Chicago Bulls (Derrick Rose—Memphis)
2. Miami Heat (Michael Beasley—Kansas State)
3. Minnesota Timberwolves (O.J. Mayo—USC)

2007

1. Portland Trail Blazers (Greg Oden—Ohio State)
2. Seattle Supersonics (Kevin Durant—Texas)
3. Atlanta Hawks (Al Horford—Florida)

2006

1. Toronto Raptors (Andrea Bargnani—Italy)
2. Chicago Bulls (LaMarcus Aldridge—Texas)
3. Charlotte Bobcats (Adam Morrison—Gonzaga)

2005

1. Milwaukee Bucks (Andrew Bogut—Utah)
2. Atlanta Hawks (Marvin Williams—North Carolina)
3. Utah Jazz (Deron Williams—Illinois)

2004

1. Orlando Magic (Dwight Howard—Southwest Atlanta Christian Academy, Atlanta, Ga.)
2. Charlotte Bobcats (Emeka Okafor—Connecticut)
3. Chicago Bulls (Ben Gordon—Connecticut)

2003

1. Cleveland Cavaliers (LeBron James—St. Vincent-St. Marys HS, Akron, Ohio)
2. Detroit Pistons (Darko Milicic—Henofarm Vrsac)
3. Denver Nuggets (Carmelo Anthony—Syracuse)

A lot of good players, but how many NBA Finals appearances on this list? My count is 5 for Lebron, 1 for Durant and Harden... and that's it!

Why all the pining for such a high pick? Due diligence in the draft is the only thing that is going to get you anywhere (Kobe #13, Paul George #10 & the list goes on)... forget tanking... let's learn how to win!
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Finals appearances, the only true barometer of an NBA player's skill.

You know Paul George, who you mentioned yourself, doesn't have one of those either. I guess he's no good.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffthecat View Post
2012


A lot of good players, but how many NBA Finals appearances on this list? My count is 5 for Lebron, 1 for Durant and Harden... and that's it!

Why all the pining for such a high pick? Due diligence in the draft is the only thing that is going to get you anywhere (Kobe #13, Paul George #10 & the list goes on)... forget tanking... let's learn how to win!
Dwight Howard 1

Last edited by TS13; 12-17-2013 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffthecat View Post
2012

1. New Orleans Hornets (Anthony Davis—Kentucky)
2. Charlotte Bobcats (Michael Kidd-Gilchrist—Kentucky)
3. Washington Wizards (Bradley Beal—Florida)

2011

1. Cleveland Cavaliers (Kyrie Irving—Duke)
2. Minnesota Timberwolves (Derrick Williams—Arizona)
3. Utah Jazz (Enes Kanter—Kentucky)

2010

1. Washington Wizards (John Wall—Kentucky)
2. Philadelphia 76ers (Evan Turner—Ohio State)
3. New jersey Nets (Derrick Favors—Georgia Tech)

2009

1. Los Angeles Clippers (Blake Griffin—Oklahoma)
2. Memphis Grizzlies (Hasheem Thabeet—Connecticut)
3. Oklahoma City Thunder (James Hardin—Arizona State)

2008

1. Chicago Bulls (Derrick Rose—Memphis)
2. Miami Heat (Michael Beasley—Kansas State)
3. Minnesota Timberwolves (O.J. Mayo—USC)

2007

1. Portland Trail Blazers (Greg Oden—Ohio State)
2. Seattle Supersonics (Kevin Durant—Texas)
3. Atlanta Hawks (Al Horford—Florida)

2006

1. Toronto Raptors (Andrea Bargnani—Italy)
2. Chicago Bulls (LaMarcus Aldridge—Texas)
3. Charlotte Bobcats (Adam Morrison—Gonzaga)

2005

1. Milwaukee Bucks (Andrew Bogut—Utah)
2. Atlanta Hawks (Marvin Williams—North Carolina)
3. Utah Jazz (Deron Williams—Illinois)

2004

1. Orlando Magic (Dwight Howard—Southwest Atlanta Christian Academy, Atlanta, Ga.)
2. Charlotte Bobcats (Emeka Okafor—Connecticut)
3. Chicago Bulls (Ben Gordon—Connecticut)

2003

1. Cleveland Cavaliers (LeBron James—St. Vincent-St. Marys HS, Akron, Ohio)
2. Detroit Pistons (Darko Milicic—Henofarm Vrsac)
3. Denver Nuggets (Carmelo Anthony—Syracuse)

A lot of good players, but how many NBA Finals appearances on this list? My count is 5 for Lebron, 1 for Durant and Harden... and that's it!

Why all the pining for such a high pick? Due diligence in the draft is the only thing that is going to get you anywhere (Kobe #13, Paul George #10 & the list goes on)... forget tanking... let's learn how to win!
I suggest you count again there buddy.

Lebron - 5
Darko - 2
(he is garbage and hardly played on the Pistons, but still made it to the finals)
Howard - 1
Durant - 1
Harden - 1

That is only for the years you had up. Look from 1947 when the first draft was first held and up. I will only have playoff appearances from the 1950 NBA Finals and forward. Here are the names of the players that have an NBA finals appearance that were drafted in the top 3 of their respective drafts

1949
Ed Macauley - 2, Vern Mikkelsen - 4

1950
Paul Arizin - 1, Chuck Share - 1

1951
Mel Hutchins - 2

1952
Jim Baechtold - 1

1953
Ray Felix - 1, Bob Houbregs - 2

1954
Frank Selvy - 3, Bob Pettit - 4

1955
Jim Loscutoff - 8

1956
Sihugo Green - 1, Bill Russell - 12

1957
Rod Hundley - 3, Jim Krebs - 3

1958
Elgin Baylor - 8, Archie Dees - 1

1959
Bob Boozer - 2, Bailey Howell - 2, Tom Hawkins - 4

1960
Oscar Robertson - 2, Jerry West - 9, Darrall Imhoff - 2

I'll do 1961-1970 on the next post.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I sure hope you didn't just intentionally clip away all the drafts before 2003 to disguise reality and prove your "point." Ever heard of a guy called Tim Duncan. Tyson Chandler. Pau Gasol. Kenyon Martin. Chauncey Billups. Keith Van Horn. Allen Iverson. Marcus Camby. Antonio McDyess. Jerry Stackhouse. Jason Kidd. Penny Hardaway. Shaq. Mourning. Finals appearances all.

That's just back to '92. Several of those players are still playing or are just recently retired, so you get an idea of the impact over an entire career, rather than just the first 5 years on average that your sample pulls from.

And that ignores the entire "team" factor that is so important in sports. Bad management or even just bad luck can doom a very skilled player to no championships or finals appearances. Just look at the Nash-led Suns. Or Stockton and Malone.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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To be fair, I totally get what griffthecat is saying and in the last decade I agree that good drafting can net you a very good player if the GM is astute enough to find him - it's not the end of the world anymore if you miss the top 3 picks (though one cannot argue the top tier talent that is usually there). Now for 2014 I would love a top 3 pick of course though there are other really good to great players deeper in this particular draft.

I would say that in the 50's, 60's, 70's, even early 80's the level of talent coming in was not the same as it is now. I mean, you had your studs and role players and the draft went accordingly. Now you have highly athletic players with years of conditioning and development from junior high school all the way up to college and not just in North America but all over the world now. The pool being drafted is so much larger than it ever was.

Last edited by DocHoliday99; 12-17-2013 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Truly hilarious.

Eating popcorn right now.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Diamond Scorpion View Post
I suggest you count again there buddy.

Lebron - 5
Darko - 2
(he is garbage and hardly played on the Pistons, but still made it to the finals)
Howard - 1
Durant - 1
Harden - 1

That is only for the years you had up. Look from 1947 when the first draft was first held and up. I will only have playoff appearances from the 1950 NBA Finals and forward. Here are the names of the players that have an NBA finals appearance that were drafted in the top 3 of their respective drafts


1949
Ed Macauley - 2, Vern Mikkelsen - 4

1950
Paul Arizin - 1, Chuck Share - 1

1951
Mel Hutchins - 2

1952
Jim Baechtold - 1

1953
Ray Felix - 1, Bob Houbregs - 2

1954
Frank Selvy - 3, Bob Pettit - 4

1955
Jim Loscutoff - 8

1956
Sihugo Green - 1, Bill Russell - 12

1957
Rod Hundley - 3, Jim Krebs - 3

1958
Elgin Baylor - 8, Archie Dees - 1

1959
Bob Boozer - 2, Bailey Howell - 2, Tom Hawkins - 4

1960
Oscar Robertson - 2, Jerry West - 9, Darrall Imhoff - 2

I'll do 1961-1970 on the next post.
So 5 players (out of 30) in the last 10 years is your counterpoint and you win? hahaha

Thank you for your list, but it's not very relevant to today's game or the Raptors next ten years. It's a different game now.

The point is that it's becoming very rare that a top 3 draft position is going to change your franchise's fortunes anymore. Consistent drafts, good management and winning experience are what is needed here, not losing.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
Finals appearances, the only true barometer of an NBA player's skill.

You know Paul George, who you mentioned yourself, doesn't have one of those either. I guess he's no good.
Ah, reading comprehension has failed you again my friend!
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Truly amazing that everyone dodges the original intent and argues mintutae.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The fuck is this?
Okay, how do you suggest we win?
Please enlighten me on your master plan to build a talented team. Ah I think you'd say "get lucky with a great pick outside the top 5" or something stupid.
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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i don't disagree with what Griff is saying. There's a lot of truth to his point, but there's just so much at play at building a winning team. so much more than draft position. So while i agree that drafting one dude isn't going to make anything automatic, having a top 3 pick (especially in a stacked draft) sure helps! If there's one thing teams in this league can rely on it's superstars leading their teams. Big players get the job done in the NBA and obviously the better your draft position the better your chances of getting a big player.

Still i like that we have people here who support different sides of this tank debate. It's important that everyone has their say and hopefully people don't dig their heels in and refuse to budge on their opinions. The truth is there really is no one right answer to the whole tank debate.
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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What I learned from this topic is that there is a bust in nearly every top three. So in the long run one of this years worst teams is going to regret they tanked, interesting.
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:30 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
The fuck is this?
Okay, how do you suggest we win?
Please enlighten me on your master plan to build a talented team. Ah I think you'd say "get lucky with a great pick outside the top 5" or something stupid.
So any team that drafts outside the top 5 are "lucky" when they find a decent pick?

Spurs must be the luckiest team in pro sports. And here I thought that they just did their homework and had a good eye for talent.
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:57 PM   #15 (permalink)
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with all due respect to the effort of the OP, not sure what are you arguing here? 99.99% of all players come in the league via drafting, 100% of titles are won by players in the league and common sense tells you that picking 1-3 is better than picking 3-60.

So really, what's your point?
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Since all of you that have replied to this post for the most part have taken such offence to what griffen cat has said lets look at this another way boys.....Since so many of you are only interested in two things: Tanking and Championships lets now turn our attention to how many teams have won the NBA finals.....and to appease all you I will go back as far as 1979-80......

How many teams have won the NBA Finals over the last 34 years.......8. THats8 in 34 tires.......this league is doomed to fail....were not winning a championship anytime soon guys so get over your selves and lets work towards making the playoffs first, and actually having a team that can win.......WE WILL NOT, unless MU guts this team raw (Later DD, Amir, Lowry, and since you want to tank so hard, you know to get that top 3 pick Later JV) then we will be in line for a top three pick this year.

Why trade guys that are now showing us the fruits of their labour DD and Amir, when all were going to do is draft a rookie with the hopes of them turing out to be as good as Amir and DD is currently. MU is not a stupid guy (thank god) and this is prob be the reason why we wont try to trade everyone away for picks with the hopes that they can produce the way DD and Amir produce.
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffthecat View Post
Ah, reading comprehension has failed you again my friend!
Yeah, shame on Anthony Davis for not having a finals appearance in his 1 season in the league, clearly the no. 1 overall pick is even with a pick 15-20, they all have 0 finals appearances
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:13 PM   #18 (permalink)
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So what you're saying is to trade all our picks away as they are useless
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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It gets you excitement for the present and hope for the future, something Raptors fans haven't had in a long, long time.

I'll take it.
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:21 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by m5racer View Post

Why trade guys that are now showing us the fruits of their labour DD and Amir, when all were going to do is draft a rookie with the hopes of them turing out to be as good as Amir and DD is currently. MU is not a stupid guy (thank god) and this is prob be the reason why we wont try to trade everyone away for picks with the hopes that they can produce the way DD and Amir produce.
seriously, how good do you think amir and demar are right now? Amir averages 12/7/1 and demar is a high volume shooter that shoots 43%.

They're both solid starters to be sure, and either could be a 3rd or 4th option on a good team (maybe not demar, he's more of a 6th man on a good team), but come on. This draft projects to be as good as the '06 draft, and look back and see how many player from that draft you'd like to have on our team now (and please, count oden too - injuries can happen to anyone, anytime).
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