What does a Top 3 pick in an NBA draft get you? - Page 2
Old 12-17-2013, 01:44 PM   #21 (permalink)
A True Diamond In The Rough

Senior Member
 
The Diamond Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Newfoundland
Posts: 2,669
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
I sure hope you didn't just intentionally clip away all the drafts before 2003 to disguise reality and prove your "point." Ever heard of a guy called Tim Duncan. Tyson Chandler. Pau Gasol. Kenyon Martin. Chauncey Billups. Keith Van Horn. Allen Iverson. Marcus Camby. Antonio McDyess. Jerry Stackhouse. Jason Kidd. Penny Hardaway. Shaq. Mourning. Finals appearances all.

That's just back to '92. Several of those players are still playing or are just recently retired, so you get an idea of the impact over an entire career, rather than just the first 5 years on average that your sample pulls from.

And that ignores the entire "team" factor that is so important in sports. Bad management or even just bad luck can doom a very skilled player to no championships or finals appearances. Just look at the Nash-led Suns. Or Stockton and Malone.
I was just about to post the rest of the names from 1961-up, but you seemed to have covered from 1992-2002, so I thank you DanH. One name that wasn't there though was Glenn Robinson 1st overall 1994 draft, won with the Spurs in his last season in 2005.

I'll just throw out some more names before 1992:

1991
Larry Johnson - 1

1990
Gary Payton - 3, Derrick Coleman - 1

1989
Sean Elliott - 2, Danny Ferry - 1

1988
Rik Smits - 1, Charles Smith - 1

1987
David Robinson - 1, Dennis Hopson - 1

1985
Patrick Ewing - 2

1984
Hakeem Olajuwon - 2, Michael Jordan - 6

1983
Rodney McCray - 1, Ralph Sampson - 1

1982
James Worthy - 8

1981
Buck Williams - 1, Isiah Thomas - 3, Mark Aguirre - 3

1980
Kevin McHale - 5,

1979
Magic Johnson - 9, David Greenwood - 1, Bill Cartwright - 3

1978
Rick Robey - 1, Mychal Thompson - 2

1973
Jim Brewer - 1, Doug Collins - 2

1972
Bob McAdoo - 4

1971
Sidney Wicks - 1 Elmore Smith - 1

1970
Rudy Tomjanovich - 1

1969
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 10, Lucius Allen 2

1968
Elvin Hayes - 4, Wes Unseld - 3

1967
Clem Haskins - 1, Earl Monroe - 2

1966
Clyde Lee - 1, Dave Bing - 1, Cazzie Russell - 1

1965
Fred Hetzel - 1, Rick Barry - 2, Dave Stallworth - 2

1964
Jim Barnes - 3

1963
Nate Thurmond - 2

1962
Bill McGill - 1

1961
Larry Siegfried - 5
The Diamond Scorpion is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 01:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
seriously, how good do you think amir and demar are right now? Amir averages 12/7/1 and demar is a high volume shooter that shoots 43%.

They're both solid starters to be sure, and either could be a 3rd or 4th option on a good team (maybe not demar, he's more of a 6th man on a good team), but come on. This draft projects to be as good as the '06 draft, and look back and see how many player from that draft you'd like to have on our team now (and please, count oden too - injuries can happen to anyone, anytime).
You mean the 07 draft.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 01:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,334
Representing:
Default

Meant 08, sorry
moremilk is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 01:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
A True Diamond In The Rough

Senior Member
 
The Diamond Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Newfoundland
Posts: 2,669
Representing:
Default

From every draft class that I and DanH listed, there were only 8 draft classes whereby none of the top three picks made it to the playoffs. Those being 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1986, 1998, 1999, 2002. The ones that griffthecat listed that didn't have at least one of the top 3 picks make it to the finals were 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012. By the looks of this season because the east is so shitty the Cavs and the Wizards could get in which would cover Anthony Bennett and Otto Porter Jr. That's only a total of 14 years (not including 2013 draft) out of 63 (since 1949 draft) that none of the top 3 picks made it to the finals.
The Diamond Scorpion is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 02:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
Masai Ujiri

Senior Member
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,759
Representing:
Default

There is no definitive guarantee for a championship, but you don't have to be a genius to know when you're put in a good position to win one. A top pick WITH a good scouting staff is that best chance. No one is disregarding stars being made from later picks but you're just making it harder for yourself for no good reason.
Kirby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 03:03 PM   #26 (permalink)
and that's the bottom line, cause JV said so!!!

This is how U(jiri) do it
 
Carlos Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Halifax
Posts: 3,917
Representing:
Default

With a good GM, a 1-3 draft pick gets you the foundation needed for a title run.
Carlos Danger is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 03:15 PM   #27 (permalink)
doesn't care where LeBron plays. Or Melo.

OY!!
 
niggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Loch Ness
Posts: 2,746
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos Danger View Post
With a good GM, a 1-3 draft pick gets you the foundation needed for a title run.
Talk about oversimplifying.
niggles is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 03:26 PM   #28 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,493
Representing:
Default

Would not want with 1-3 in bold (some years that was the best there was but you get the point).

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Diamond Scorpion View Post
I was just about to post the rest of the names from 1961-up, but you seemed to have covered from 1992-2002, so I thank you DanH. One name that wasn't there though was Glenn Robinson 1st overall 1994 draft, won with the Spurs in his last season in 2005.

I'll just throw out some more names before 1992:

1991
Larry Johnson - 1

1990
Gary Payton - 3, Derrick Coleman - 1

1989
Sean Elliott - 2, Danny Ferry - 1

1988
Rik Smits - 1, Charles Smith - 1

1987
David Robinson - 1, Dennis Hopson - 1

1985
Patrick Ewing - 2

1984
Hakeem Olajuwon - 2, Michael Jordan - 6

1983
Rodney McCray - 1, Ralph Sampson - 1

1982
James Worthy - 8

1981
Buck Williams - 1, Isiah Thomas - 3, Mark Aguirre - 3

1980
Kevin McHale - 5,

1979
Magic Johnson - 9, David Greenwood - 1, Bill Cartwright - 3

1978
Rick Robey - 1, Mychal Thompson - 2


Then I gave up due to age, some obviously would want.
1973
Jim Brewer - 1, Doug Collins - 2

1972
Bob McAdoo - 4

1971
Sidney Wicks - 1 Elmore Smith - 1

1970
Rudy Tomjanovich - 1

1969
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 10, Lucius Allen 2

1968
Elvin Hayes - 4, Wes Unseld - 3

1967
Clem Haskins - 1, Earl Monroe - 2

1966
Clyde Lee - 1, Dave Bing - 1, Cazzie Russell - 1

1965
Fred Hetzel - 1, Rick Barry - 2, Dave Stallworth - 2

1964
Jim Barnes - 3

1963
Nate Thurmond - 2

1962
Bill McGill - 1

1961
Larry Siegfried - 5
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 03:27 PM   #29 (permalink)
and that's the bottom line, cause JV said so!!!

This is how U(jiri) do it
 
Carlos Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Halifax
Posts: 3,917
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niggles View Post
Talk about oversimplifying.
Oversimplifying? How about just the truth.

Lucky for us, we happen to have one of those GMs.
Carlos Danger is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 03:33 PM   #30 (permalink)
doesn't care where LeBron plays. Or Melo.

OY!!
 
niggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Loch Ness
Posts: 2,746
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos Danger View Post
Oversimplifying? How about just the truth.

Lucky for us, we happen to have one of those GMs.
It was a simplistic statement. I'm sure you believe it's "just the truth". Well, reality bites.
niggles is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 03:34 PM   #31 (permalink)
and that's the bottom line, cause JV said so!!!

This is how U(jiri) do it
 
Carlos Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Halifax
Posts: 3,917
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niggles View Post
It was a simplistic statement. I'm sure you believe it's "just the truth". Well, reality bites.
lol k pal
Carlos Danger is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 03:47 PM   #32 (permalink)
raptor jesus

Senior Member
 
Don Vito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,917
Representing:
Default

I really hate when people bring up past drafts and say "that happened for them, it'll happen for us." Its a different situation, this draft is a once in a decade type draft. Are we better off going to the playoffs/finals with a superstar from the draft, or DeRozan? Give me a break, everybody damn well knows we aren't getting into the finals EVER unless we build through the draft or sign superstar talent (which we won't).
Don Vito is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 03:52 PM   #33 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
I really hate when people bring up past drafts and say "that happened for them, it'll happen for us." Its a different situation, this draft is a once in a decade type draft. Are we better off going to the playoffs/finals with a superstar from the draft, or DeRozan? Give me a break, everybody damn well knows we aren't getting into the finals EVER unless we build through the draft or sign superstar talent (which we won't).
Well said. I think some people are just content with the raps winning 1 round ala the Atlanta Hawks.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 05:06 PM   #34 (permalink)
looking forward to Bargnani getting traded

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 779
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
Yeah, shame on Anthony Davis for not having a finals appearance in his 1 season in the league, clearly the no. 1 overall pick is even with a pick 15-20, they all have 0 finals appearances
Lol +1
tyguy94 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 06:01 PM   #35 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,360
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
I really hate when people bring up past drafts and say "that happened for them, it'll happen for us." Its a different situation, this draft is a once in a decade type draft. Are we better off going to the playoffs/finals with a superstar from the draft, or DeRozan? Give me a break, everybody damn well knows we aren't getting into the finals EVER unless we build through the draft or sign superstar talent (which we won't).
SAC thought the same thing once upon a time.... so did IND in the years after Reggie.... so did DAL....

Is it so difficult to believe that we could duplicate their success?
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 07:02 PM   #36 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
SAC thought the same thing once upon a time.... so did IND in the years after Reggie.... so did DAL....

Is it so difficult to believe that we could duplicate their success?
Dallas had Nowitzki (drafted) and had an owner where money was an afterthought. . SAC didn't reach the finals so... Indy while not "tanking" per se - still have cornerstones which were drafted - George, Hibbert, Stephenson and their finances were and are in much better states than the Raps'.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 07:07 PM   #37 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,360
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
Dallas had Nowitzki (drafted) and had an owner where money was an afterthought. . SAC didn't reach the finals so... Indy while not "tanking" per se - still have cornerstones which were drafted - George, Hibbert, Stephenson and their finances were and are in much better states than the Raps'.
I'm not saying that they didn't accumulate some talent through the draft.... What I was trying to point out was that those teams didn't acquire that talent with high picks.

And SAC should have reached the Finals... if not for being screwed by the refs against the Lakers.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 07:14 PM   #38 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
I'm not saying that they didn't accumulate some talent through the draft.... What I was trying to point out was that those teams didn't acquire that talent with high picks.
Yeah but it's a hell of a lot easier to acquire said talent - like a Dirk or George - the higher one is in a draft. We all know too well the difference between even one position in a draft.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 07:30 PM   #39 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,360
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
Yeah but it's a hell of a lot easier to acquire said talent - like a Dirk or George - the higher one is in a draft. We all know too well the difference between even one position in a draft.
A lot of teams passed on both of those guys.

Same thing is likely to happen in this coming draft.

A top 5 pick doesn't guarantee a franchise player. There are usually a few busts or semi-busts thrown in there too. See Bargnani, Andrea.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 07:33 PM   #40 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,619
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niggles View Post
Talk about oversimplifying.
Oversimplifying would be saying all you need is good scouting to get stars through the draft.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24