What does Jose Have To Do?
Old 01-16-2008, 11:29 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Yes, I like to beat a dead horse.

I have read in some other threads that Jose will return to backup upon T.J's return.

So I ask those of you *cough cough, Swan*.

What would Jose have to do to keep himself in the starting line-up...what numbers would he possibly have to put up to show you guys, that he is in fact the starter for this team?

Don't tell me why you think T.J is better, just what under blue skys could Jose possibly do more?
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Old 01-16-2008, 11:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Become African American and shrink five inches.
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Old 01-16-2008, 11:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Become African American and shrink five inches.
"Even when I'm not the starter, I will be the starter".

I suppose he really doesnt have a chance.
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Old 01-16-2008, 11:39 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Jose doesn't deserve to move back to the bench just because Ford is coming back. T.J. will ease back into the line-up anways and I don't expect Sam to start Ford just because he's been the starter since day one. It should be Jose's job to lose right now for at least the remainder of this season. Sam's a smart guy and I expect him to do the right thing, not just to make it the feel good story here in Toronto .... "Ford battles the odds to start once again for the Raptors".
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Old 01-16-2008, 11:58 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzo View Post
So I ask those of you *cough cough, Swan*.

What would Jose have to do to keep himself in the starting line-up...what numbers would he possibly have to put up to show you guys, that he is in fact the starter for this team?

<Raises hand> OH! OH! I know the answer!

i know i'm not a member of the target audience for your question, but i''ll chime in anyways.

answer: NOTHING. he's already done more than enough to be kept as a starter.
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Benzo View Post
Yes, I like to beat a dead horse.

I have read in some other threads that Jose will return to backup upon T.J's return.

So I ask those of you *cough cough, Swan*.

What would Jose have to do to keep himself in the starting line-up...what numbers would he possibly have to put up to show you guys, that he is in fact the starter for this team?

Don't tell me why you think T.J is better, just what under blue skys could Jose possibly do more?
Give Tj a REALLY hard hit on the back with a lead pipe would likely do the trick

Seriously...aside from the fact that a starting player should never lose his job because of an injury i'm not sure how Jose can make himself a more suited starting point guard for this team with this roster.

I suppose he could be a little more selfish in certain situations when his team needs instant offense. He's really worked on his shot in the past couple years and really could be averaging over 15ppg as a starter.

He has shown the ability to get to the bucket but he doesnt' in my opinion do it enough. Our team is really built well for the drive and kick offense but he tends to settle outside the arc and attempt to generate ball movement that way...which as we've seen doesn't work for 48 mins. Our team really isn't designed like a detroit or even portland did it well..moving the ball around on it's own against some of the better defenses. If he would penetrate more and kick out, guys like Parker and Kapono would be more effective. Lately Sam has had to tweak the offence to get Parker more invovled and i've noticed as a result he's handling the rock a lot more and curling off screens to get mid range jumpers and some dunks. Last year...how many 3's did we get from a TJ drive and kick and then 3 passes around the arc to an open Parker or MoPete in the corner? We dont' ever see that play with Jose running the show.

I guess the other thing is defence. He's really not that great a defender even though he tries and has long arms. I wouldn't call him a liability but he doesn't do quite enough to disrupt the opposing team's pg enough to make up for it. With his size and length and intelligence I think he could be a more effective defender with some work though. He's definitely shown a propensity to learn and grow as a player despite his age and experience internationally.

Seriously i dont' dislike Jose or his game, but i believe TJ is the right type of pg for the team the way it's constructed...and I believe that BC and Sam's view of the team's future is a good one and i strongly beleive you dont' lose your job when you get hurt. For those reasons...when TJ is back and at 100% he should and will start again.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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LOL, I have realize we have the agents of two players in this site:

Raptors123-Caldes agent.

Swan-Tjs agent.

Well I respect your opinions but I dont agree with neither of them, although I tend more to the "pro-calderon" campaigh
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:06 PM   #8 (permalink)
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LOL, I have realize we have the agents of two players in this site:

Raptors123-Caldes agent.

Swan-Tjs agent.

Well I respect your opinions but I dont agree with neither of them, although I tend more to the "pro-calderon" campaigh
Man...i must be doing something wrong then... i'm not making the money i should be.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
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lol, good answer
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Sure you lose your job if we get hurt. NBA is not about equal opportunity, it's about performance. And we're not talking about a gilbert arenas vs antonio daniels here either. Now, if you want to argue that TJ should receive the starting job back because he's still the better player - than I have no problem with that. Of course, I don't agree with this statement, but I do agree with the fact that the better pg should start - no matter what.

One thing I agree though is that TJ's style of play is better suited for our team.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Sure you lose your job if we get hurt. NBA is not about equal opportunity, it's about performance. And we're not talking about a gilbert arenas vs antonio daniels here either. Now, if you want to argue that TJ should receive the starting job back because he's still the better player - than I have no problem with that. Of course, I don't agree with this statement, but I do agree with the fact that the better pg should start - no matter what.
It's not a rule...it is an unwritten rule with many coaches though as i think it should be. Oh and I am arguing also that TJ is the better guard..and has more potential..just so i get the credibility i deserve for wanting him to start when he's healthy i had to throw that in


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One thing I agree though is that TJ's style of play is better suited for our team.
I'm glad you can make the distinction. Our team was built around the way TJ plays and the guard BC sees him becoming. For Jose to really thrive here and have the team win a lot with him i think the roster needs to be tweaked. We need more guys that can finish at the rim, better rebounders and generally more versatile guys. We're a jump shooting team that really does well with TJ's style.
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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We're a jump shooting team that really does well with TJ's style.
I'm sure you mean when TJ decides to pass the ball right?....lol.
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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just keep in mind that I said TJ's style of play, not TJ as a player. Of course we would benefit for somebody that can penetrate, any nba team would benefit from that. But reckless and out of control penetration doesn't benefit anybody, if TJ would be able to control his game, he would be a far better player than he is. Until that happens, Jose brings poise, the ability to hit big time shots, gets everybody involved early and keeps people involved, and generally speaking does an outstanding job on offense.
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:15 AM   #14 (permalink)
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just keep in mind that I said TJ's style of play, not TJ as a player. Of course we would benefit for somebody that can penetrate, any nba team would benefit from that. But reckless and out of control penetration doesn't benefit anybody, if TJ would be able to control his game, he would be a far better player than he is. Until that happens, Jose brings poise, the ability to hit big time shots, gets everybody involved early and keeps people involved, and generally speaking does an outstanding job on offense.

Fair enough..he's young and improving still.

To the thread's title..if Jose does what he did last night to good defensive teams he could be our starting point guard for the next ten years in my opinion. The ball movement was awesome last night... lots of open shots and spacing for Bosh. It was the way the Raptors were designed to play. Gotta learn to do that against teams that know how to fight that style though.
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:22 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I think Ford fits better in the starting lineup and Jose off the bench. Jose will have a bunch of shooters around him, and Ford won't have as many shooters but gets in the lane easier and creates more havoc to start the game off(hes more of a focal point offensively especially when we get in ruts, and Ford plays better vs the very good to great teams because of his ability to get into the FT line area a la CP3 and hit his patended fallaway jumper). And when TJ gets back, I expect to see driving/energetic Jose return as well to tear up teams and create even better ball movement the rest of the year.
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:38 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I think Ford fits better in the starting lineup and Jose off the bench. Jose will have a bunch of shooters around him, and Ford won't have as many shooters but gets in the lane easier and creates more havoc to start the game off(hes more of a focal point offensively especially when we get in ruts, and Ford plays better vs the very good to great teams because of his ability to get into the FT line area a la CP3 and hit his patended fallaway jumper). And when TJ gets back, I expect to see driving/energetic Jose return as well to tear up teams and create even better ball movement the rest of the year.
I could NOT have said it better myself! Nice.
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Old 01-17-2008, 03:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I really think obsessing about who starts is missing the point. They are both starting calibre. They both clearly need each other to be at their best. And they both play big roles in the wins, no matter who starts or who finishes, and the finishing part is probably more important than the starting, and will reflect what the team needs on any night in question.

The biggest thing that Jose lacks that TJ brings, is the defensive containment of speedy, athletic guards. Unfortunately it's a big deal, unless this team wants to go with beating teams strictly on offense. If we could ensure that speedy, athletic guards did not start on opposing teams, then I could definitely live with TJ coming off of the bench. Hell - it would probably work ok anyways, but I'd look for TJ to finish in those instances.

And it would not surprise me, depending on what moves get made in the future, to see TJ being more of a sixth man, and finishing many games, come next year and beyond.

Whatever happens - it will be in the best interests of the team.
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Old 01-17-2008, 03:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
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On the contrary I think it does matter who starts for at least 2 reasons.

1. Whoever starts has to kickstart the offense and establish the flow. One of our guards is better at kickstarting the flow...the other excels in maintaining it while giving a different look.

2. Whoever starts goes against the other team's best and the relief man deals more with the scrubs. One of our guards is more capable (as you noted) on the defensive end and therefore would be al ogical choice to guard the opposing team's top pg while the other would be more free to focus on breaking down the weaker lineup for quick offence while the other team scambles in adjustment to the backup guards style.

I'll leave it up to you guys which one is which
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:17 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Yeah - ok you convinced me SWAN, but once they are sharing minutes I could see Jose better able to establish the flow while not having to be concerned with fouls or losing his legs, and I think he could be a little more intense defensively. Meanwhile TJ could come in and not just maintain the flow - but add another weapon if needed, while really putting some more teeth into the defense.
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:51 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Yeah - ok you convinced me SWAN, but once they are sharing minutes I could see Jose better able to establish the flow while not having to be concerned with fouls or losing his legs, and I think he could be a little more intense defensively. Meanwhile TJ could come in and not just maintain the flow - but add another weapon if needed, while really putting some more teeth into the defense.
Certainly that is better than Jose to Dmart or Dixon... but ultimately I really believe you'll see Tj starting again when he's 100% and Jose relieving and I really believe it's best for the team.
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