What do you want to see on this team next season? - Page 2
Old 02-17-2011, 11:30 AM   #21 (permalink)
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One of Irving, P. Jones, Barnes

Jose, Bargs, Weems gone and a new 1,3,5 in the starting lineup. New coach, one that is an experienced motivator, holds players accountable and knows how to teach defence.


Keep the main bench players of Bayless, Barbosa, Wright, Davis, Ajinca?

Irving/Bayless
Mayo?/Barbosa
DD/Wright/vet?
Amir/Davis
Defensive Center/FA?/Ajinca?




Ultimately, draft a PG or SF and then upgrade the other two spots via trade (TPE/Jose/Bargs??) and FA. And it would be nice to add a vet off the bench at the 2 or 3.

That lineup adding any available defensive center in the nba would be terrible, 30-35 wins TOPS.

No scoring in the frontcourt at all would totally allow for the opposing team to clog the lane rendering the best part of Irvings game more of a nonfactor. Team would be nothing but the wings jacking contested threes. Awesome.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:31 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I want ED to get the starter minutes/treatment Derozan initially did at the begining of this season & last season
Exactly. Davis starting, Amir behind him and replace Bargnani with a Defensive minded Center. The only issue there is if Davis doesn't improve his range we would have two Bigs playing at the rim which likely wouldn't work. But two Bigs that concentrate on altering shots , rebounding, defense and then surrounding them with Derozan and upgrades at the PG/SF spots via draft and trade or FA would be ideal. Scoring threats from the 1-2-3 spots, stability inside (leading to more offensive rebounds), and keep Bayless, Barbosa, Wright, Amir off the bench. But if it's between Amir or Davis at PF i wouldn't hesitate to say Davis.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:32 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Exactly. Davis starting, Amir behind him and replace Bargnani with a Defensive minded Center. The only issue there is if Davis doesn't improve his range we would have two Bigs playing at the rim which likely wouldn't work. But two Bigs that concentrate on altering shots , rebounding, defense and then surrounding them with Derozan and upgrades at the PG/SF spots via draft and trade or FA would be ideal. Scoring threats from the 1-2-3 spots, stability inside (leading to more offensive rebounds), and keep Bayless, Barbosa, Wright, Amir off the bench. But if it's between Amir or Davis at PF i wouldn't hesitate to say Davis.
so you want to turn the Raps into the Charlotte Bobcats. AWESOME!! Cant wait!!! most exciting team in the NBA. perrenial title contenders.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:36 AM   #24 (permalink)
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That lineup adding any available defensive center in the nba would be terrible, 30-35 wins TOPS.

No scoring in the frontcourt at all would totally allow for the opposing team to clog the lane rendering the best part of Irvings game more of a nonfactor. Team would be nothing but the wings jacking contested threes. Awesome.
Did you think we would win 50 games next season? If we win 20 games this season and get 35 wins next season it's a step in the right direction to say the least and it doesn't exclude making moves at the deadline next season. Plus, Davis can score double digits (30+mpg), Amir can score and gets to the line and defensive Centers usually get you 10-12ppg so scoring in the front court wouldn't be that big of an issue imo. Especially if Davis and whoever starts at Center can alter shots, rebound and in the case of Ed Davis block shots. Bargnani starting at the 5 isn't getting us anywhere and him starting at the 4 means one of Amir and Davis would likely have to be dealt. I'd rather deal Bargnani, get a bigger return and go with Davis, Amir at the 4.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:38 AM   #25 (permalink)
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so you want to turn the Raps into the Charlotte Bobcats. AWESOME!! Cant wait!!! most exciting team in the NBA. perrenial title contenders.
They're closer to some sort of identity than we are.

And really, I could care less about excitement in terms of the play.

Win games. That's excitement to me.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:40 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I'm think more like Atlanta, with Davis being the shot blocking PF that rebounds and alters shots and getting a real Center. Charlotte?? WTF?
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:44 AM   #27 (permalink)
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so you want to turn the Raps into the Charlotte Bobcats. AWESOME!! Cant wait!!! most exciting team in the NBA. perrenial title contenders.
+1

Charlotte is the model of the future baby! Not much upside though.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:44 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Did you think we would win 50 games next season? If we win 20 games this season and get 35 wins next season it's a step in the right direction to say the least and it doesn't exclude making moves at the deadline next season. Plus, Davis can score double digits (30+mpg), Amir can score and gets to the line and defensive Centers usually get you 10-12ppg so scoring in the front court wouldn't be that big of an issue imo. Especially if Davis and whoever starts at Center can alter shots, rebound and in the case of Ed Davis block shots. Bargnani starting at the 5 isn't getting us anywhere and him starting at the 4 means one of Amir and Davis would likely have to be dealt. I'd rather deal Bargnani, get a bigger return and go with Davis, Amir at the 4.
wouldnt not work at all. only reason that front court would be able to get any points at all would be from the ocasional putback or missed defensive assignment from the other team. Davis is absolutly brutal, abysmal even on the offensive end and cant be paired with this hypothetical defensive center or amir and expect for there to be anysort of team success now or in the future with that pairing.

and as much as you say jose sucks how do you possibly expect for the team to trade him for a starting defensive center who can average a double double, stop his man one on one and play solid help defense, cause no team is going to trade that guy for another center in bargs.

the more realistic route for team to go is to bring in a weakside helper/defensive sf that can hit the three and continue with what is already here. and an upgrade at the pg spot would be nice as well. simple. and better balances the lineup.

Davis and amir at the pf spot is fine, Bargs at the center spot is more than fine even with his weaknesses.

sg is ok with demar, jury still out in regards to how good he will get but whatever.

pg isnt terrible, but definately needs a defensive upgrade

sf is the worst in the entire nba, anything at all would be a huge upgrade at this point in time.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:45 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I'm think more like Atlanta, with Davis being the shot blocking PF that rebounds and alters shots and getting a real Center. Charlotte?? WTF?
like Josh Smith? Horford is more than just a defensive C
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:45 AM   #30 (permalink)
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like Josh Smith? Horford is more than just a defensive C
Did i say he wasn't?
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:47 AM   #31 (permalink)
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They're closer to some sort of identity than we are.

And really, I could care less about excitement in terms of the play.

Win games. That's excitement to me.
they have been together longer, team isnt anywhere near a completed thing yet. give it at least till next season.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:49 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Did i say he wasn't?
but you are saying that we will be just like atlanta(who by the way havent done shit in the playoffs, are in salary cap hell and are getting older and older) with davis and a defensive center when atlanta has WAY more than davis and a defensive center in the froncourt.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:50 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Davis and amir at the pf spot is fine, Bargs at the center spot is more than fine even with his weaknesses.
As far as i'm concerned Bargnani's weaknesses are a major problem. For this team to really affect change, both he and Jose probably need to be dealt. The current culture on this team is at the moment is tied to them like stink on a monkey. 1 and 5 positions are the most important positions imo especially on D and both these players sorely lack the ability to defend consistently. It begins and ends there imo.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:55 AM   #34 (permalink)
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As far as i'm concerned Bargnani's weaknesses are a major problem. For this team to really affect change, both he and Jose probably need to be dealt. The current culture on this team is at the moment is tied to them like stink on a monkey. 1 and 5 positions are the most important positions imo especially on D and both these players sorely lack the ability to defend consistently. It begins and ends there imo.
one of them can be subpar defensively, not both though.

and team should resemble a jazz type of mold much easier with amir/davis being a millsap. Bargs being an okur type of guy(who plays outside, not a great rebounder, not very good defensively) and demar being a guy at sf who isnt great at anything but is solid enough.

Adds a sf that defends and is a helpside shotblocker and if Kyrie becomes 1 10th of what raptor fans feel he will become he will be better than Williams is at the pg spot
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:02 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I am sitting on the D-fence as well. I want that to become ingrained in the culture of the team. And that means that Bargnani doesn't really work no matter if he's a 4 or 5. I could give the idea of him at the 4 more of a chance if it didn't mean a lesser role for Davis. And it's too bad, because on offense they are quite compatible. But Davis guarding the bigger guy makes no sense. I would like to see more sense, and more defense.

Andrea and jose both coming off the bench could work for me. It could provide a role that actually works for Andrea long-term going forward, and a role for Jose that works in the short term. But my focus would pretty much be on everything but what happens to those two players. My eyes will be on DeMar, Davis, Amir, and any other additions.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:06 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I'm just going to throw this out there, but what if Davis can become that defensive minded 4 to pair with Bargnani? I don't know if this would work because of his height, but he definitely has the raw talent to do so.

Start
PG(draft/trade) / Bayless
Derozan / Barbosa
SF(Draft/trade) / Wright / Vet
Davis / Amir
Bargnani / FA/ Ajinca

If you get a PG that can play a little D and distribute, with a SF that can shoot the 3 to spread the floor I think that's a decent core to build up (assuming we use the draft well).

After the Raptors, I'm a HUGE Oklahoma City fan and to look at what they've done I feel like that is the definition of rebuild. Hoping we can model ourselves something like that, without a superstar like KD lol.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:12 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I want bulk on the blocks. Either at the PF or C spot. Some who can post up and score on there own. Some who can draw a double and can pass or score out of it. Which means replacing Amir or really pushing Davis development. I want a winning veteran to hold this youth together. Someone who has won a playoff series would be great.

Last edited by Scully; 02-17-2011 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:13 PM   #38 (permalink)
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One thing is funny, we have a C that plays like a PF (Bargnani) and a PF that plays like a C (Davis)... i mean

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Old 02-17-2011, 12:19 PM   #39 (permalink)
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A defensive-minded 4 just isn't going to cut it. Davis can only do so much. If he has to keep the behemoths that Bargnani refuses to pair up with at bay, then it's just going to be more of the same. How often did we see Reggie playing good D, and Bosh last season before that, only to see the rebound of a weak shot get put back for easy points? I saw it too often to give the idea another thought. I want Defense to mean something. I want it to be what keeps a young team in every game. I want it to be what allows for a young team to grow and improve, by magnifying the talent that can be added to a team that already plays the right way. Anything less is going to be disappointing to me, even if they grab Steph Curry and get into the playoffs playing hyper-offensively. I'm tired of the gimmicks. Let me see some basketball.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:21 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I hope we suck just as bad next year.

In fact, I'm sure we will.
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