What do you think the plan is? - Page 2
Old 07-07-2013, 03:21 PM   #21 (permalink)
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To me, it really says a lot that MU didn't do the deal for David Lee. If we took that deal he would have been arguably our best player. Shows a bit where MU wants to take this team.
all it shows me is that he doesn't want to add a longer, more expensive contract than bargnani's when we're already caped out. Stay relatively the same, evaluate what you have when the season starts then decide who you keep and next summer we'll be in a better position to deal players and be under the cap in all likelihood. Or he doesn't like Lee that much....

right now we have a grand total of 9.5mil (DD) committed in the summer of 2015 which imo is when they'll look to really bolster the lineup. Until then add decent depth on short term deals.

Last edited by jeffb; 07-07-2013 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
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To me, it really says a lot that MU didn't do the deal for David Lee. If we took that deal he would have been arguably our best player. Shows a bit where MU wants to take this team.
actually that deal was apparently never even offered by GSW

HoopsHype - David Lee Rumors

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Old 07-07-2013, 03:28 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Lol, does Lee even play defense? He probably wouldn't have been a good fit here...
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:40 PM   #24 (permalink)
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To me, it really says a lot that MU didn't do the deal for David Lee. If we took that deal he would have been arguably our best player. Shows a bit where MU wants to take this team.
One goal in the end, championship contender, rather than playoff sqeaker. Even if they don't know it, they're all in a job interview/ on probabtion for a position on an elite team.

If Lowry doesn't seem to be panning out as a guy who will help lead you to a championship, I'm hoping that teams like the Lakers (who likely won't do a long term rebuild) are the ones that panic and offer up a first rounder (lottery?), expiring, etc in a sign and trade. Even Bargnani got us assets. Patience may pay off.
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:44 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You put it well Ammo. There's two years where various options present themselves. There will not be a shuffling of personnel, but rather targeted deals that get pounced on if and when they present themselves. It's a classic case of a long-term vision helping to carry out short-term actions. The priority right now is building a defensive identity as a foundation, evaluating the efforts of everyone in that regard, and looking down the road when more can be done so that the most can be made of future opportunities.

If they can get the roster close to being complete in the sense of most everyone being able to contribute to defining the whole in some way, and there is a clear and well-established sense of how they want to play, then it's much easier to say that you're working to get better everyday. They already took a big step in that direction by trading Bargnani. He just always confused matters here. There would be him and a few players needed to make up for hs weaknesses, and then everyone else who would end up trying to do too much on their own. There were some positive signs of players meshing on both ends as last season progressed. If they can get that from the start this season then the value of each player can increase and the options will open up.

But there's no huge rush to make changes for the sake of making changes right now, nor is there much room to be able to do all that much right now. Ujiri needs to see both the long-term and short-term goals the way a defender sees the ball and his man, and he needs to be able to act and react appropriately to both. Making the most of each little decision now and moving forward, makes the decisions yet to come all the more meaningful and enticing.

We've never really had much of a chance to see a team put together according to a plan. We've seen teams thrown together, we've seen them fall apart, and we've seen them blown apart. Gunwald came the closest to taking a sustained path, but going after guys like yogi and moiso and Murray, and allowing Vince to buy into something less than an appropriate culture, left him with a very narrow path that lead to a brick wall in a hurry. It is very true that the best moves are sometimes the ones not made. As long as they can hold onto some good principles and act accordingly, the next two years can be used to do what has never been done here.
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:46 PM   #26 (permalink)
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If MU sticks to the defensive mantra as a core BB philosophy and culture .... David Lee made no sense.
Will be interesting to see if MU's future moves involves taking D into account .... Q
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:48 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Can someone provide proof of the David Lee offer?
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:49 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Can someone provide proof of the David Lee offer?
Nope. I think that was put out there to raise Bargnani's value a little.
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:54 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You put it well Ammo. There's two years where various options present themselves. There will not be a shuffling of personnel, but rather targeted deals that get pounced on if and when they present themselves. It's a classic case of a long-term vision helping to carry out short-term actions. The priority right now is building a defensive identity as a foundation, evaluating the efforts of everyone in that regard, and looking down the road when more can be done so that the most can be made of future opportunities.

If they can get the roster close to being complete in the sense of most everyone being able to contribute to defining the whole in some way, and there is a clear and well-established sense of how they want to play, then it's much easier to say that you're working to get better everyday. They already took a big step in that direction by trading Bargnani. He just always confused matters here. There would be him and a few players needed to make up for hs weaknesses, and then everyone else who would end up trying to do too much on their own. There were some positive signs of players meshing on both ends as last season progressed. If they can get that from the start this season then the value of each player can increase and the options will open up.

But there's no huge rush to make changes for the sake of making changes right now, nor is there much room to be able to do all that much right now. Ujiri needs to see both the long-term and short-term goals the way a defender sees the ball and his man, and he needs to be able to act and react appropriately to both. Making the most of each little decision now and moving forward, makes the decisions yet to come all the more meaningful and enticing.

We've never really had much of a chance to see a team put together according to a plan. We've seen teams thrown together, we've seen them fall apart, and we've seen them blown apart. Gunwald came the closest to taking a sustained path, but going after guys like yogi and moiso and Murray, and allowing Vince to buy into something less than an appropriate culture, left him with a very narrow path that lead to a brick wall in a hurry. It is very true that the best moves are sometimes the ones not made. As long as they can hold onto some good principles and act accordingly, the next two years can be used to do what has never been done here.
And a fair shake for suffering Raps fans that they don't necessarily have to deliberately stink for 5 more years in the hopes of being a decent in 2018.
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:02 PM   #30 (permalink)
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actually that deal was apparently never even offered by GSW

HoopsHype - David Lee Rumors

How credible is that source? I've never heard of Alan Hahn before.

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Lol, does Lee even play defense? He probably wouldn't have been a good fit here
Should we trade DeMar then? Since he sucks at D as well? Or should we keep him since it will help us make the playoffs? Lee would help win games much more than DeRozan would.

And Jeff, why would MU be reluctant to deal for a good player on a big contract? Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but it shows me that he understands we won't be going anywhere of substance with this core even with David lee on the team. And in that summer of '15 Lee would be a huge expiring contract, so according to what you've said in other threads his value will only have increased by then and he'd be easy to dump.
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:11 PM   #31 (permalink)
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How credible is that source? I've never heard of Alan Hahn before.


Should we trade DeMar then? Since he sucks at D as well? Or should we keep him since it will help us make the playoffs? Lee would help win games much more than DeRozan would.

And Jeff, why would MU be reluctant to deal for a good player on a big contract? Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but it shows me that he understands we won't be going anywhere of substance with this core even with David lee on the team. And in that summer of '15 Lee would be a huge expiring contract, so according to what you've said in other threads his value will only have increased by then and he'd be easy to dump.
True enough, but we'd be a tax team with Lee right now. He makes more than Bargnani. Could also be that the offer was never made or that MU doesn't like him or think he's worth the money (3yrs/44mil). Maybe it's the injury sustained in the playoffs + the contract that turned him off. Could be a lot of things. My guess is they never offered us Lee for Bargnani.
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:22 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Should we trade DeMar then? Since he sucks at D as well? Or should we keep him since it will help us make the playoffs? Lee would help win games much more than DeRozan would.
So you'd add Lee to a lineup which already features defensive liabilty Derozan which would make us even weaker? Should've kept Bargs then, same effect...

Lee would give us his usual 20 and 10 (when Bosh put up those numbers for us people here would call it "hollow stats") but since our lineup IMHO already provides enough offense we would benefit more from an Ibaka/Faried/McGee/Sanders kind of player who blocks shots and starts fast breaks.

Since MU had 2 of those 4 guys while with Denver might suggest he's looking for a similar player at the 4. I for one would love it.
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:44 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Demar isn't necessarily a huge liability. He has been a liability in the past. He improved last season. He needs to be one of those guys evaluated in terms of defense, and yes, if he fails to show enough contribution he would be a prime trading chip when the right opportunity arises. Same goes for Gay, who although showed some nice defense, didn't always commit fully. Same goes for Lowry, who although he has what it takes to defend well, often lacked discipline. Same goes for pretty much everyone else. Everyone needs to fall in line behind the effort and toughness shown by Amir, who not that long ago could be a liability quite often on the defensive end.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:34 PM   #34 (permalink)
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True enough, but we'd be a tax team with Lee right now. He makes more than Bargnani. Could also be that the offer was never made or that MU doesn't like him or think he's worth the money (3yrs/44mil). Maybe it's the injury sustained in the playoffs + the contract that turned him off. Could be a lot of things. My guess is they never offered us Lee for Bargnani.
agreed
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:21 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Lee would give us his usual 20 and 10 (when Bosh put up those numbers for us people here would call it "hollow stats") but since our lineup IMHO already provides enough offense we would benefit more from an Ibaka/Faried/McGee/Sanders kind of player who blocks shots and starts fast breaks.

Since MU had 2 of those 4 guys while with Denver might suggest he's looking for a similar player at the 4. I for one would love it.
I wasn't registered here when Bosh was on the roster (nor were you for that matter but I digress) but 20/10 is only called "empty stats" when the team is not in the playoffs. Empty stats are when you put up those stats and your team still sucks. That Raptors roster with lee would be in the playoffs, therefore the stats wouldnt be "empty".

McGee and Sanders aren't PFs, they are Cs. McGee didn't even start, so that kind of defeats the purpose of saying MU had him in Denver. Faried is not the rim protector you make him out to be. He averages a block per game. When you put him with guys like those 3 who average or have averaged around 3 bpg, he doesn't really fit.

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Old 07-07-2013, 06:44 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Rumors that Kleiza maybe amnestied.

Eurohoops via Hoopshype.

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Old 07-07-2013, 06:48 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Rumors that Kleiza maybe amnestied.
well that's new..
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:52 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I think that amnestying Linas fits what I've been saying. He's lost more than a step. He's not going to contribute defensively. If he got hot hitting threes off the bench often enough he would be worth keeping, but Novak can fill that role much more reliably.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:54 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Yea... we wont be pulling an Andrea for him, and I really really don't want to see him playing for us by the upcoming season.
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:33 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Rumors that Kleiza maybe amnestied.

Eurohoops via Hoopshype.
**Crosses Fingers**
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