What do you guys think? - Page 2
Old 12-29-2010, 12:07 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Defense is about a lot more than blocks. If it were only about blocks per game, Bargnani could actually be a passable 5.

I think Bargnani's defense is awful, but I am hopeful that he will pair well with Davis. Davis is a good weak-side and help defender, which could cover for Bargnani.
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Old 12-29-2010, 12:15 PM   #22 (permalink)
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something you say are right, but i would put it in an other way.

trade bargs, because he has value and add to this team a big center who can defend way better and a 3rd pg who can defend like batless and score too.

and then amir, davis and dorsey + this big Center can a great frontcourt for the futur.

but we need somthing right now, and we didn't have it.

you the difference between game where Bargs and caldy are in the game, andwhen they are not.

yes they are too young (bayless, DD, wright, davis, dorsey and amir) but every game at this end of the year they show some heart and hustle. and you can say that Bargs growing up every year, it doen't make him a legit defender.

make 3 way trade with orlando and dallas (for exemple)
send Bargs to orlando, and evans + weems to dallas and add duhon+ anderson from ORL and beaubois or barea and mahimmi from dallas, and we will set for the rest of the season and for next year.

but yes, you can say barg will be a better treat coming off the bench.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Trading Bargs will make us a lottery team for 5+ more years. So if we're a lottery team for 2 years right now with Bargs, trading him would make us a lottery team for 7+ years.

I think Bosh and Bargs were also compared to the Towers. Saying Davis and Amir is the next Twin Towers is leading yourself to disappointment.

Ligeia is right, defense is more than just blocks. Amir has more blocks than Bargs, but can barely stay in games sometimes. Ed is a rookie and will get overpowered by stronger, faster, and older PFs and Centers.

Dont get me wrong, I love the Raptors and its players, but as many people said already one game doesn't predict the season or the future.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:30 PM   #24 (permalink)
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something you say are right, but i would put it in an other way.

trade bargs, because he has value and add to this team a big center who can defend way better and a 3rd pg who can defend like batless and score too.

and then amir, davis and dorsey + this big Center can a great frontcourt for the futur.

but we need somthing right now, and we didn't have it.

you the difference between game where Bargs and caldy are in the game, andwhen they are not.

yes they are too young (bayless, DD, wright, davis, dorsey and amir) but every game at this end of the year they show some heart and hustle. and you can say that Bargs growing up every year, it doen't make him a legit defender.

make 3 way trade with orlando and dallas (for exemple)
send Bargs to orlando, and evans + weems to dallas and add duhon+ anderson from ORL and beaubois or barea and mahimmi from dallas, and we will set for the rest of the season and for next year.
but yes, you can say barg will be a better treat coming off the bench.
Why not move the team to Winnipeg too.... That is a terrible string of deals. Duhon? Barea? Mahimmi? Anderson? Beaubois? Which one of these guys makes us set exactly? Those trades would be on par with the Vince Deal.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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No. Bargnani has been the best player on this team this year and he is not going to come off the bench.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:52 PM   #26 (permalink)
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No. Bargnani has been the best player on this team this year and he is not going to come off the bench.
best player just because he scores the most points??...:facepalm:

People are in love with Julian Wright right now even though he has practically 0 stats...just sayin'...
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:57 PM   #27 (permalink)
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best player just because he scores the most points??...:facepalm:

People are in love with Julian Wright right now even though he has practically 0 stats...just sayin'...

Best player cause the team lacks talent and he is the best scoring option. His defense is not great but if you put a great help side defender beside him it would help. Who else on this team is a better option?
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:10 PM   #28 (permalink)
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best player just because he scores the most points??...:facepalm:

People are in love with Julian Wright right now even though he has practically 0 stats...just sayin'...
Who would you say is a better player on this team right now? Do tell.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:33 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Was it not even 2 weeks ago when this board couldn't come up a viable 2nd option, now were taking out our 1st option, for shot blocking. Bargs isn't an all NBA defender, But he hasen't fouled out in a game. The guy knows his role, that is to be on the court scoring points, not getting in the face of every pg and sg grabbing stupid fouls . Why is help D such a perceived priority, because our back court can't stay in front of anyone. So if you change up for the sake of D, l suggest look very closely at DDR and Jose.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:42 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Was it not even 2 weeks ago when this board couldn't come up a viable 2nd option, now were taking out our 1st option, for shot blocking. Bargs isn't an all NBA defender, But he hasen't fouled out in a game. The guy knows his role, that is to be on the court scoring points, not getting in the face of every pg and sg grabbing stupid fouls . Why is help D such a perceived priority, because our back court can't stay in front of anyone. So if you change up for the sake of D, l suggest look very closely at DDR and Jose.
Umm no....DDR and Jose are going up against the fastest guys in the league night in and night out....that's not gonna change so there's no point in changing our backcourt...

We CAN change our frontcourt and bring the Help D.....Rondo and Allen are horrible man on man defenders (Jose passed Rondo so many times in that Raps win over Boston) but guys like Garnett and Davis and even Shaq help their guards.

And why is everyone thinking I want Andrea out?!?! Goddamn he'll STILL GET HIS 30+ MINUTES off the bench and play his offense AGAISNT 2nd UNIT PLAYERS at that!

Just let guys set the tone on Defense because Andrea hasn't developed any instincts on Defense. All he's developed is some muscle and weight and guys can't push him around as much as before....

As far as the best player on the team is concerned, it's a tie they're all consistently inconsistent...But Barbosa and Kleiza have been more crucial in most of our wins so I think they're better than Bargs considering they don't get as many touches or specific plays called for them.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:53 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Everyone's so concerned with missing Bargs' 20 pts/gm..... but if he's not starting and we're giving up 85-90 pts/gm instead of 110 then do we really need those points that badly?

Just sayin'....
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:12 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Everyone's so concerned with missing Bargs' 20 pts/gm..... but if he's not starting and we're giving up 85-90 pts/gm instead of 110 then do we really need those points that badly?

Just sayin'....
it's excatly what i think. so why not send out barg, he has some great value right now.
him and caldy have value, don't forget when you rebuild that's matter.
value to bring other value or young asset. and right now we need more young asset than 2 player who have no defense and make this team seems like a gruyere !
just to say !

evans have expiring value (if it's mater) peja too, but caldy and barg are trade value to bring pick or young asset, and this is not something you pass out especially when you have hard time to bring in off season good US player.

you have a lot of foreign player who don't mind coming in toronto. and so you can rebuild with some of them and some young or picks.

i don't understand why somes of you don't understand that.
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:16 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Everyone's so concerned with missing Bargs' 20 pts/gm..... but if he's not starting and we're giving up 85-90 pts/gm instead of 110 then do we really need those points that badly?

Just sayin'....
Well yeah if that happens in the long run. They had one great game against a Mavs team without its best player(yes still have talented players). If the team without Bargs can give up only 90-95PPG then you think about it in the long run. It would be great if Raptors team can build around a team that play defense.
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:44 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I can hear the Analysts now... the Toronto Raptors have benched there #1 option, the best player on the team to play against 2nd unit guys...

You guys really want to be the laughing stock of the league dont ya? Were almost there anyway... ya lets do this...

:facepalm:
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:47 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Well yeah if that happens in the long run. They had one great game against a Mavs team without its best player(yes still have talented players). If the team without Bargs can give up only 90-95PPG then you think about it in the long run. It would be great if Raptors team can build around a team that play defense.
yes but if we only score 80 points a game like our last 2 then were no better. i agree defence wins championships but with our roster without Bargs we have 0 offence.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:24 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I can hear the Analysts now... the Toronto Raptors have benched there #1 option, the best player on the team to play against 2nd unit guys...

You guys really want to be the laughing stock of the league dont ya? Were almost there anyway... ya lets do this...

:facepalm:
no no no it's more like,.....I can hear Analysts now: "Raps have benched their #1 option because he's lead them to being the laughing stock of the league"...:facepalm::facepalm:

Ya think maybe they'd bench a guy because they're the laughing stock of the league?
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:30 PM   #37 (permalink)
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no no no it's more like,.....I can hear Analysts now: "Raps have benched their #1 option because he's lead them to being the laughing stock of the league"...:facepalm::facepalm:

Ya think maybe they'd bench a guy because they're the laughing stock of the league?
huh? Where did Bosh lead this team? Take Bosh off that and now AB is supposred to lead them to a championship immediately?

It's clear to almost everyone, but you, that this team isn't yet talented enough to have their best player coming off the bench.
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:55 PM   #38 (permalink)
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it's excatly what i think. so why not send out barg, he has some great value right now.
him and caldy have value, don't forget when you rebuild that's matter.
value to bring other value or young asset. and right now we need more young asset than 2 player who have no defense and make this team seems like a gruyere !
just to say !

evans have expiring value (if it's mater) peja too, but caldy and barg are trade value to bring pick or young asset, and this is not something you pass out especially when you have hard time to bring in off season good US player.

you have a lot of foreign player who don't mind coming in toronto. and so you can rebuild with some of them and some young or picks.

i don't understand why somes of you don't understand that.
Because trading your number 1 offence and youre only true point guard is downright stupid. Yes our team needs defense, but if youre team can only defend not rack up any points then youre going to lose. Julian Wright can defend and pass, but can't create his own offence. Defense wins champoinships, but so does some offence.

Your post makes it look like Bargs is ancient. Jose's defense has stepped up than last year and can keep his man infront of him most of the time.

Just because 2 players have value doesn't mean we should trade them. If we trade Bargs, then we're going to be in the lottery for a long time. Add Caldy to that, and our offence will look really disorganized.
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:12 AM   #39 (permalink)
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no no no it's more like,.....I can hear Analysts now: "Raps have benched their #1 option because he's lead them to being the laughing stock of the league"...:facepalm::facepalm:

Ya think maybe they'd bench a guy because they're the laughing stock of the league?
First off you've given the guy 2 months to "lead" his team... as you say to failure :facepalm:

Second off, i dont think there is a team in the league that wouldnt want Bargs.... and you want to bench him? :facepalm:

Waste of my time ... bye
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:46 AM   #40 (permalink)
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huh? Where did Bosh lead this team? Take Bosh off that and now AB is supposred to lead them to a championship immediately?

It's clear to almost everyone, but you, that this team isn't yet talented enough to have their best player coming off the bench.
When Bosh was around, he didn't have Barbosa, Kleiza, and an improved Derozan/Amir as secondary options. Bosh was the only option so to speak.
As far as talent is concerned, you've got it backwards. I think this team is a lot more talented except we don't see it everyday because Andrea's getting all the touches. But that was never the point I was trying to make. If I remember correctly, the Raps' offense hasn't been a problem in the past 5-6 years. I'm saying it's time to actually focus on defense by playing defensive-minded players.
I never said anything about a championship...i was just saying a defensive lineup is better to start off games. Andrea will still score his points.

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First off you've given the guy 2 months to "lead" his team... as you say to failure :facepalm:

Second off, i dont think there is a team in the league that wouldnt want Bargs.... and you want to bench him? :facepalm:

Waste of my time ... bye
If a coach can get fired within 2 months of a season (hello Sam!) then a one player change in the lineup is nothing. f-a-c-e-p-a-l-m.....
You people should read before posting seriously...Sure I want to bench Andrea but only at the beginning of games. Like I said, he'll still get his 30+ minutes and if he can't score coming off the bench then that says a lot about him as an individual.

It's all about setting the tone on defense and some of you guys just don't understand. So yea you've wasted your time if you were unable to understand that concept.
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