Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards

Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/)
-   Toronto Raptors (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/)
-   -   What do we do with Lowry and Bargs now !! (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/what-do-we-do-lowry-bargs-now-24311.html)

Slick94 12-16-2012 09:51 PM

This team responds better with Jose getting the majority of minutes at the PG spot. Deal Lowry and lets get our first rounder back!!

myklue 12-16-2012 10:23 PM

*looks at thread title* lol...wow already? smh.

zapffe 12-17-2012 01:27 AM

I wish there was an option for trade Bargs and bring Lowry in off the bench. I'm not willing to give up on Lowry as he did play well except for his horrific decision making (which will improve as he gains his health back and stops forcing shots and trusts his teammates). However, I really like Jose's style, which makes a team function as a team. Actually, I think it'd be great to have both Jose and Lowry as they complement each other.

Chiggmo 12-17-2012 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myklue (Post 723241)
*looks at thread title* lol...wow already? smh.

This is Toronto baby!

carp 12-17-2012 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapffe (Post 723307)
I wish there was an option for trade Bargs and bring Lowry in off the bench. I'm not willing to give up on Lowry as he did play well except for his horrific decision making (which will improve as he gains his health back and stops forcing shots and trusts his teammates). However, I really like Jose's style, which makes a team function as a team. Actually, I think it'd be great to have both Jose and Lowry as they complement each other.

Lowry off the bench would never work. He'd sulk. He was brought in to be the starter, he thinks he's a starter, he's not going to be as professional as Jose... he's just not that guy.

I think Jose's biggest issue here has been playing on a team where Bargnani and DeRozan have been weak defensively as well... and any three we've played has generally been mediocre. If we remove Bargnani and understand that Derozan has made small strides defensively (need much more) along with Ross' defensive strengths, then we can see Jose's weaknesses being mitigated finally. If he resigns for much less, say a Jason Terry or Jason Kidd type deal, we can draft a future PG that can be mentored by a still very capable Jose.

FLO 12-17-2012 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 723196)
No..... his teammates just play better with a PG that they're used to... because he's been here for YEARS and knows where and when they like the ball.

Jesus... this hate for Lowry is bordering on ridiculous now. Give the guy at least half a damn season for him to learn his new team for God's sakes!

Lowry made a choice to come here and play selfishly. He's already sulking and has already been called out by his teammates. This guy was brought in to be our leader and best player and he's done the exact opposite by playing selfish and losing the respect of those around him.

The fact he's going to leave when his contract is up makes it even worse for us. Get rid of him now and get something. You don't really believe he'll be happy being Calderon's backup?

jeffb 12-17-2012 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLO (Post 723371)
You don't really believe he'll be happy being Calderon's backup?

Because he won't be the backup. When healthy Lowry is easily the better PG and has been for a couple years.

TORaptor4Ever 12-17-2012 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLO (Post 723371)
Lowry made a choice to come here and play selfishly. He's already sulking and has already been called out by his teammates. This guy was brought in to be our leader and best player and he's done the exact opposite by playing selfish and losing the respect of those around him.

The fact he's going to leave when his contract is up makes it even worse for us. Get rid of him now and get something. You don't really believe he'll be happy being Calderon's backup?

12 shots/gm is "playing selfishly"? Esp. considering the fact that EVERYONE was sucking in most of those games?

Lowry did the same thing every game... played passively the first half and tried to get others involved... and then called his own number more in the 3rd and 4th Q's if/when the team started to struggle.

This isn't Westbrook or Kobe or Melo who look off other all-star calibre players and throw up 25 shots to get 30 pts....

jeffb 12-17-2012 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 723377)
12 shots/gm is "playing selfishly"? Esp. considering the fact that EVERYONE was sucking in most of those games?

Lowry did the same thing every game... played passively the first half and tried to get others involved... and then called his own number more in the 3rd and 4th Q's if/when the team started to struggle.

This isn't Westbrook or Kobe or Melo who look off other all-star calibre players and throw up 25 shots to get 30 pts....

Yeah, have to agree there. I don't see him playing all that selfishly. He absolutely looks for his shot more than Jose but that's one thing i like about him. But he's 3rd on the team in shots per game on a starting 5 that consists of a rookie Center and no consistent SF. Whatever, like i said this summer this type of bullshit was bound to happen if BC couldn't find a taker for Calderon.

Ataf 12-17-2012 01:35 PM

Wtf... what's going on three days ago it was trade Jose... jesus christ.

I'm still for trading Bargs, and benching Jose. Get Lowry healthy, be defensive focused. The change was because Casey reverted back to his D philosophy, whether this was because Bargs was out, or he realized he was detaching himself from that philosophy, I'm not sure.

However Jose has played great in the two games, defensively as well a big reason is cause Lin is a joke- and jose has always been better then Lin, even during Linsanity. Watch that game winner game, Lin sucked big time till the last few mins. Jose is still not good in the clutch, but no one can question his FTs.
When it comes down to it, we need Jose's offense in a defense focused system.
Lowry is better defensively, and will do much better then he is atm, when he's healthy, his offense is good too, not as good PG like, but still good enough. He can penetrate, even in late games, can make big shots (if he's given the chance to do so), can dish it, pesky and can lock down defensively. Jose is a good at defense, but needs the proper D around him (Davis, Amir, Val etc..). We need more of the right peices so Jose can have that around him, and at the same time Lowry does too. Which would mean trading Bargs for better defensive players but players who aren't tottaly uselss on offense.
I want to see Lowry play healthy, without bargs. Before we judge if his style of play mixes with Casey's well enough.

I'd keep Jose as long as possible, but he probably doesn't want to return even if he did get the starter role, so trading him too is logical and reasonable.

Imagine the D with something like
Lowry
Demar
Pietrus
(someone defensively good, I don't know Hickson or someone or even Gasol)
and Amir or Val
The offense wont be stagnant, with that lineup, and when Jose comes of the bench, it'll still be clicking. Ofcourse this require players to be consistent which means letting Bargs go, even consider Kleiza go, and Fields. Who just seem to be no good at times on either ends, Kleiza is good sometimes but similar to bargs, and I prefer Alan Anderson over him.

Ball Don't Lie 12-17-2012 02:10 PM

I dont even know why Pietrus is still playing. Hes a horrible offensive player and his defence isnt as good as his ORL days. He sucks and shouldnt be included in any lineup. He should be the 4th stringer on this team.

moremilk 12-17-2012 02:13 PM

if only fans would have a little patience, in a few days lowry will be back, he'll be fully healthy (his ankle should be fully healed and the shoulder injury shouldn't affect him too much I think), and he'll get at least 2 weeks to play with this team without Andrea.

We'll have a better idea how well he fits, there are clearly some thing he's not doing right, like shooting quick 3s, his defensive gambles, plays taken off and inferior court vision compared to Jose. On the other hand, he's a much better defender, much better shot creator and just as tough as jose.

If we revert to the static style of play, than it's on lowry and casey, otherwise, it's pretty clear that Bargnani is the main guy responsible.

LX 12-17-2012 02:19 PM

Lowry's court vision is fine. It's a matter of other guys making themselves available for passes, and if there is the kind of movement off the ball like there was yesterday. then we'll see that work. I can think of numerous times when Lowry made plays only to need to wait for someone to cut and receive the pass.

I'm not so sure his foot will be full healed though. Google bruised cuboid and you will see an emphasis on a great length of time to fully heal.

TORaptor4Ever 12-17-2012 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie (Post 723459)
I dont even know why Pietrus is still playing. Hes a horrible offensive player and his defence isnt as good as his ORL days. He sucks and shouldnt be included in any lineup. He should be the 4th stringer on this team.

I'd assume that if AA puts in another strong performance he'll probably have his starting job back by the end of the week.

raptor123 12-17-2012 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 723375)
Because he won't be the backup. When healthy Lowry is easily the better PG and has been for a couple years.

Jeff geeze man..........Calderon at 31 is better the Lowry at 26. Not even close !!!!!!!! Fuck man do you like being fucking wrong all the time...... lol :confused2:

Sorry dude Lowry could actually beat Calderon in the 100 metre sprint thats about it !!!!!

moujik 12-17-2012 04:39 PM

It's all working out nicely! and more fans are beginning to see the light.
Il embarrassment is a no-brainer.
People thought Jose could never be a part of a successful 5 on D, but he's proving otherwise.
I believe in Lowry though.
Package AB with Fields and maybe Lucas (you can get an Uzoh as a 3rd PG) and we're set. We don't need to trade Jose or Kyle, cause there's nothing there to be had anyway.

raptor123 12-17-2012 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slick94 (Post 723236)
This team responds better with Jose getting the majority of minutes !


Except for Jeff and his buddies on our forum team lol !!!!!!

Bargn88 12-17-2012 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 723466)
Lowry's court vision is fine. It's a matter of other guys making themselves available for passes, and if there is the kind of movement off the ball like there was yesterday. then we'll see that work. I can think of numerous times when Lowry made plays only to need to wait for someone to cut and receive the pass.

I'm not so sure his foot will be full healed though. Google bruised cuboid and you will see an emphasis on a great length of time to fully heal.

Ya he has great court vision, if by that you mean vision for a pull up 3 with 20 seconds on the shot clock with no one under the net to rebound.

Detroit game, team is down by 1 point, 2 possessions in a row Lowry takes the ball up the court, his teammates with their hands in their air waiting for a pass, yet Lowry has only one thing in mind: "I'm taking the shot"

Nyall 12-17-2012 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bargn88 (Post 723543)
Ya he has great court vision, if by that you mean vision for a pull up 3 with 20 seconds on the shot clock with no one under the net to rebound.

Detroit game, team is down by 1 point, 2 possessions in a row Lowry takes the ball up the court, his teammates with their hands in their air waiting for a pass, yet Lowry has only one thing in mind: "I'm taking the shot"

Bu-bu-but It's Bargnani's fault! :cookie:

woodchuck 12-17-2012 06:49 PM

Sota: Pau
Lakers: Lowry, Bargnani
Raptors: Pekovic, Williams

Pekovic+Valanciunas would be a very interesting frontline long term. No one would call the Raptors soft.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:28 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24