Are we the next superteam?
Old 05-15-2013, 08:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

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Default Are we the next superteam?

I may be the one saying it, but that question has to be put to the new CEO.

Our new super-awesome man in charge is concerned about one thing....winning a championship. He says he basically wants to ask every day, "How can we win a championship".

Sooooo......

It's not just about entertaining.
It's not just about making the playoffs.

Well, this is the age of the superteam. And one team is virtually unbeatable.

There was nothing done in the new CBA to address teams being better able to hold on to their franchise players. Miami, NY, L.A., Dallas and Chicago will always be there as a destination for players "too good" for other cities. So players will always collude to join forces.

So if Leiweke is going to keep asking that question, the honest answer is going to have to be to build a superteam. What else will win a championship? But how are they supposed to accomplish that? An 8 year tank? This man is going to have to think way, way outside the box. I'm a Raptor fan, so I'm having a hard time dreaming that big.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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No.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Nope.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
Ross will be..

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if Bargs has a great season
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Maybe.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Ahhh, probably not.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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We are if: JV becomes a near hall of famer at C ; KL becomes fully healthy and averages about 10 apg, 5-7 rpg and 14+ppg (whilst off much better FG%age); Rudy adjusts his game to be much more efficient on offense while limiting his turnovers, while becoming a 3 pt threat; DD becomes a 20/5/3 type player with a reliable 3 pt shot, becoming a 3 pt threat while maintaining his calling card of going to the rim whilst not being a defensive liability; the bench contains 2-3 players who are capable of starting and the starting unit doesn't meet a beat/looks just as good; the bench is basically 12 deep; there are no lingering injuries or health issues to any of the starters.

So,

nope.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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We played almost as well as the last super team as it was.

We are going to likely see Memphis San Antonio and Indiana alongside the biggest super team as the last four standing. And Miami didn't succeed until they got the team part down. That's three pretty good blueprints to work off of, that don't require a lot of thinking outside of the box. If anything we've suffered precisely from that idea the last 8 years.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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No.

Plus, the luxury tax is much more punitive now and the restrictions on spending for tax paying teams is much more stringent starting next season.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The system is rigged, and it's not in the Raptors' favor.

If only team salaries were capped (and not player salaries), then talent would be distributed much more evenly. Someone like LeBron would make way too much to afford a Wade and Bosh on top of that.

Because player salaries are also capped there's incentive for players to form super teams and share the work load.

Right now, I don't believe that Toronto is a destination for free agents.

Also, we're not in a position to become a free agent destination without clearing out some cap.

We'll be competitive over the next few years, but I doubt that we'll become a super team without some major cap clearing roster overhaul and free agent signings.

When will Wiggins' rookie contract expire, anyways? Is it too early to start planning?
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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There isn't anything rigged in any way that a good organizational structure can't make things work. I point again to the likely final four teams. How did the system favour any of them? Even if OKC or GSW make it rather than SAS and Memphis. That's a lot of teams that did far better than those looking to make it work by throwing money around.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I think of the 2008 Celtics, and the Heat when talking about super teams.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

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As far as I'm concerned, Pandora's box has been opened.

Superteams that fail will just re-load. Where will those stars tend come from? From players that have bashed their heads against the wall in their futile pursuit of championships when they are only playing on an O.K. team. Added to that are veterans taking discounts to stack superteams. I was so sure they would address player retention, but nope.

This is why I don't necessarily want to look at champion teams over the last decade or two or three. Contrived superteams are something newer. Seems to me that the landscape has changed. Can you expect to keep your stars now?
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:21 PM   #14 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EggsToTheBBQ View Post
When will Wiggins' rookie contract expire, anyways? Is it too early to start planning?
Unfortunately, that may be one of the ways to think outside the box. Pat Riley likely had his minion, D. Wade greasing the wheels at the all-star break to coax Bosh and Bron.

Winning the draft lottery is a crap shoot, but if Wiggins really does blow up, he may have enough pull to draw a couple of mega-stars to Toronto. Someone needs to get in his ear early while Toronto management clears the deck.

hmmmm. The sneaky bastard method.......Might just work.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
Keep it simple

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building through the draft is the way to go now, cleveland doing it right
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:44 PM   #16 (permalink)
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building through the draft is the way to go now, cleveland doing it right
Exactly. Cleveland is bad for three years and they have a Kyrie Irving. We've been borderline awful for about a decade and basically have JV, DeRozan, and Bargs to show for it. Bosh is the only player in the past 10 years that's even remotely comparable to Irving in terms of star potential that we've had. Sadly, a lot of it is luck and the draft hasn't worked in our favour in the long run. In all likelihood, we're not going to be awful next season so Wiggins ain't happening either.
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:22 AM   #17 (permalink)
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is Calderon a raptor?


question answered
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:23 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
We played almost as well as the last super team as it was.

We are going to likely see Memphis San Antonio and Indiana alongside the biggest super team as the last four standing. And Miami didn't succeed until they got the team part down. That's three pretty good blueprints to work off of, that don't require a lot of thinking outside of the box. If anything we've suffered precisely from that idea the last 8 years.
funny how success changes perceptions, until they started winning, Memphis was the laugh of the town. They drafted badly (thabeet, mayo over love, xavier henry), traded their stars for peanuts (NOBODY foresaw little Gasol would be anywhere near as good as he became, battier in his prime for a pick in the worst draft etc and now gay for prince), traded for an undesirable randolph etc. Even Conley was a fairly unpopular pick at the time and took a long time to become a good player and his extension was nearly universally criticized at the time. Oh yeah, and they sucked much worse than we did for 4 long seasons.

About the only good thing they did was tanking, having a #2, #4 and #5 pick in consecutive years. Of course, those picks were turned into thabeet, mayo and conley.

So which aspect of their successful "culture" should we emulate? Drafting duds, trading for undesirable players or trading all star players for expiring contracts?
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:06 AM   #19 (permalink)
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if demar, gay and jonas improve this summer coming into the season we will be a difficult team to beat, not quite a super team but pretty damn good still
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:44 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
funny how success changes perceptions, until they started winning, Memphis was the laugh of the town. They drafted badly (thabeet, mayo over love, xavier henry), traded their stars for peanuts (NOBODY foresaw little Gasol would be anywhere near as good as he became, battier in his prime for a pick in the worst draft etc and now gay for prince), traded for an undesirable randolph etc. Even Conley was a fairly unpopular pick at the time and took a long time to become a good player and his extension was nearly universally criticized at the time. Oh yeah, and they sucked much worse than we did for 4 long seasons.

About the only good thing they did was tanking, having a #2, #4 and #5 pick in consecutive years. Of course, those picks were turned into thabeet, mayo and conley.

So which aspect of their successful "culture" should we emulate?
Drafting duds, trading for undesirable players or trading all star players for expiring contracts?
Playing defense and team basketball and, when appropriate, holding players accountable. Simply question.

We should also use our MLE (or a trade) to tweak the roster by adding smart role players, who have immense value, like Tony Allen. Although that is easier said than done because you have to convince those guys to come and plenty of teams want the cheap, high impact guys. But there is no reason the Raps couldn't play hard as fuck on defense if they bought in and put together the right scheme.

Look, most of what you said applies to pre-2009-2010 Grizzlies. When talking with real life friends during a run at the YMCA, I've played the "what if the Grizzlies drafted Harden or kept K-Love or ...this ...or that" game. We don't want to emulate that period, and in reality we can't anyway. I doubt LX would say we should, either. It doesn't matter, because, for the next couple of years at least, we have little financial flexibility and slim chance of having a high lotto pick. But we can emulate the good decisions that began in 2009.

We want to emulate the post-2009 precess when the Grizz looked at what they had and moved forward based on the assessments at that given point in time. The only stupid thing they did at that point was draft Xavier Henry in the summer 2010, and that was cancelled out within weeks by adding Tony Allen.

And if you accuse me of using hindsight on the Tony Allen move, I'm not. I will quote myself.

BTW, they stole Randolph for peanuts. I agree that Randolph seemed like a clown back then, but they weren't giving anythig up, really. In terms of a cost/benefit analysis, it was very low risk. Despite Randolph's seemingly low b-ball IQ (a perception fueled in part by his play under Zeke in a shit situation), Memphis gave up literally nothing. I would say it would be comparable to us trading Bargnani for Boozer, since Boozer also gets knocked for lack of D, but it's still way better than what we'd get from Bargnani when you look at the overall picture. That's the kind of move the Grizz would have made when they smartened up and started to build a harder-nosed culture of accountability, defense and team ball.

I imagine LX would write something like that, Moremilk.

Last edited by Bill Haverchuck; 05-16-2013 at 04:46 AM.
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