We lose by 1, Offensive Cylinder remember? - Page 3
Old 11-24-2012, 01:29 AM   #41 (permalink)
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The no call on Bargs with 2.4 secs left was more egregious.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:57 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Let's see what everyone thinks of Bargnani after we play SA, Hou, Mem the next 3 games. In 48hrs i could see another trade Bargnani thread started. lol
Even if he plays well, that thread will be created. As for the next three games, I agree, he's gotta bring it. They also need to not go away from him in the third quarter again and start forcefeeding duds. It's time that AB starts demanding the ball more than DD is, which is obviously way too often, and asserts his presence as the main offensive option on this team. That's only going to open it up for DD, Kyle and JV. DD isn't opening shit up for anyone. Come on Casey, let's see some prep work this time.

We've also got to find a way to unload excess depth, though not necessarily starting calibre as some may imply, at the PF spot. If nobody wants Ed or Amir, then maybe we need to trade AB cause our SF spot is killing us softly (Landry) and slowly (Kleiza). AB is our best PF and it's not close, but Ed and Amir are both active, energetic and reasonably athletic bigs that can play solid if unspectacular roles, There is just too much at the 4 and not even close to enough at the 3.

Also, Lucas sucks and it was good to not see that fuckface. We miss Barbosa a little, and while some never appreciated his skillset, the dude could light it up. Good young teams have vets like him that bring consistency. I'm really wishing we spent on Delfino and not the near-rookie Landry. We'd be a much more balanced team.
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:58 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Even if he plays well, that thread will be created. As for the next three games, I agree, he's gotta bring it. They also need to not go away from him in the third quarter again and start forcefeeding duds. It's time that AB starts demanding the ball more than DD is, which is obviously way too often, and asserts his presence as the main offensive option on this team. That's only going to open it up for DD, Kyle and JV. DD isn't opening shit up for anyone. Come on Casey, let's see some prep work this time.

We've also got to find a way to unload excess depth, though not necessarily starting calibre as some may imply, at the PF spot. If nobody wants Ed or Amir, then maybe we need to trade AB cause our SF spot is killing us softly (Landry) and slowly (Kleiza). AB is our best PF and it's not close, but Ed and Amir are both active, energetic and reasonably athletic bigs that can play solid if unspectacular roles, There is just too much at the 4 and not even close to enough at the 3.

Also, Lucas sucks and it was good to not see that fuckface. We miss Barbosa a little, and while some never appreciated his skillset, the dude could light it up. Good young teams have vets like him that bring consistency. I'm really wishing we spent on Delfino and not the near-rookie Landry. We'd be a much more balanced team.
AB is our best scoring PF, not best overall.

Well said though.

I think a big issue is that this team only has 2 sfs - LKZ and McGuire. Some would even say LKZ is even more of a PF. Fields, is not a naturally SF and you can see that when he plays against big sfs. maybe ross could fit that sf or sg role but once again, their strengths are better suited for the sg position.
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:08 PM   #44 (permalink)
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AB is our best scoring PF, not best overall.

Well said though.

I think a big issue is that this team only has 2 sfs - LKZ and McGuire. Some would even say LKZ is even more of a PF. Fields, is not a naturally SF and you can see that when he plays against big sfs. maybe ross could fit that sf or sg role but once again, their strengths are better suited for the sg position.
If we had any production out of Mcguire/Kleiza/Ross we would win that game.

We have lost quite a few games this year where you look at the stat sheet and see duds beside the Wing players (aside from DD).

Last night, Bargnani went 8/13 in the first half then 5/7 in the 2nd. He only had 3 touches in the 3rd, then went 3/4 in the 4th quarter.

Too many plays were being run for Kleiza who just throwing up bricks, gotta look for the hot hand and keep feeding him.
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:21 PM   #45 (permalink)
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AB is our best scoring PF, not best overall. Well said though.

I think a big issue is that this team only has 2 sfs - LKZ and McGuire. Some would even say LKZ is even more of a PF. Fields, is not a naturally SF and you can see that when he plays against big sfs. maybe ross could fit that sf or sg role but once again, their strengths are better suited for the sg position.
No, he's absolutely our best PF... Davis and Amir aren't as good. If you think they are, you're just buying into the negative hype.
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:24 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Not to change the subject, but I saw mention of DD's extension, now I knew he got one, but how much did they give him, and whats the cap hit?
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:38 PM   #47 (permalink)
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No, he's absolutely our best PF... Davis and Amir aren't as good. If you think they are, you're just buying into the negative hype.
Didn't you also scrutinize me when I said Lowry is the best player on the team and best overall and you said Bargs although not better overall was still better than Lowry.
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:40 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Not to change the subject, but I saw mention of DD's extension, now I knew he got one, but how much did they give him, and whats the cap hit?
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:59 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Didn't you also scrutinize me when I said Lowry is the best player on the team and best overall and you said Bargs although not better overall was still better than Lowry.
I fail to see where I was wrong on that point despite my words being different than what those imply.

Last edited by carp; 11-24-2012 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:03 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I fail to see where I was wrong on that point.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:11 PM   #51 (permalink)
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AB is our best scoring PF, not best overall.
Well said though.

I think a big issue is that this team only has 2 sfs - LKZ and McGuire. Some would even say LKZ is even more of a PF. Fields, is not a naturally SF and you can see that when he plays against big sfs. maybe ross could fit that sf or sg role but once again, their strengths are better suited for the sg position.
Which Power Forward is better than Bargnani overall? Davis? Amir? Kleiza?

Davis is a good rebounder, and has improved his offensive game alot compared to last year, but he has no range, and has terrible hands.

I would love to see one game where Bargnani sits out with something and we allow Ed Davis to start, and let's see how he does in 40+ minutes against starters.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:13 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Kyle > than Bargs in practically every statistical category (both per game and advanced stats). You admitted Lowry was best overall but also said Bargs is still > than Lowry.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:24 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Which Power Forward is better than Bargnani overall? Davis? Amir? Kleiza?

Davis is a good rebounder, and has improved his offensive game alot compared to last year, but he has no range, and has terrible hands.

I would love to see one game where Bargnani sits out with something and we allow Ed Davis to start, and let's see how he does in 40+ minutes against starters.
I would've said Kle because he's a half PF

Very few if any players play 40+ minutes.

Let's say, hypothetically ED were given that chance, if he had an average game or bad game many would say he's crap, etc. That would be it, he'd be given no more games at all to keep that starting spot when clearly you need time/flow to get adjusted from playing minor - key minutes sporadically. He wouldn't be given any leeway whatsoever (whether some think this is right or wrong is another matter).

Also, I'll concede that ED going to the starting lineup would be dependent on LKZ going to SF. This has already been semi-discussed by me, bailey and others. Starting LKZ + ED (or amir) as opposed to McGuire and Bargs has been discussed. Having Bargs coming off the bench and just owning opposing teams' benches isn't a horrible idea. Also, just because one starts or is coming off the bench it doesn't mean they have to have insane minutes or almost no minutes.

Wasn't ED given key minutes against Indy and Minny in those two wins
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:04 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I would've said Kle because he's a half PF

Very few if any players play 40+ minutes.

Let's say, hypothetically ED were given that chance, if he had an average game or bad game many would say he's crap, etc. That would be it, he'd be given no more games at all to keep that starting spot when clearly you need time/flow to get adjusted from playing minor - key minutes sporadically. He wouldn't be given any leeway whatsoever (whether some think this is right or wrong is another matter).

Also, I'll concede that ED going to the starting lineup would be dependent on LKZ going to SF. This has already been semi-discussed by me, bailey and others. Starting LKZ + ED (or amir) as opposed to McGuire and Bargs has been discussed. Having Bargs coming off the bench and just owning opposing teams' benches isn't a horrible idea. Also, just because one starts or is coming off the bench it doesn't mean they have to have insane minutes or almost no minutes.

Wasn't ED given key minutes against Indy and Minny in those two wins
So Andrea is supposed to be better off the bench against subs and Ed is supposed to be better against starters? Why can't Ed own the bench players? Answer: he can't. This is a flawed argument.

Ed has been inconsistent, but last night he looked pretty good. Unfortunately, this team sucks offensively and AB is much more suited to big minutes here.
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:19 PM   #55 (permalink)
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So Andrea is supposed to be better off the bench against subs and Ed is supposed to be better against starters? Why can't Ed own the bench players? Answer: he can't. This is a flawed argument.

Ed has been inconsistent, but last night he looked pretty good. Unfortunately, this team sucks offensively and AB is much more suited to big minutes here.
Not necessarily an argument. You don't think Bargs would own opposing bigs off the bench? You keep pointing to ED and his offensive game. ED isn't present to be an offensive force or option, he's there to rebound and defend, and be efficient on offense (which he is). He's also looked good against Indy playing key minutes alongside Amir against the beasts that Indy has. Also, I've said this before, just because someone starts/doesn't start it doesn't mean they have to get giant or few minutes. You say Bargs is suited to big minutes, he can get those big minutes off the bench as well.

This team isn't a contending team nor is it even a playoff team. Options should be considered at least, not struck down immediately.
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:22 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Not necessarily an argument. You don't think Bargs would own opposing bigs off the bench? You keep pointing to ED and his offensive game. ED isn't present to be an offensive force or option, he's there to rebound and defend, and be efficient on offense (which he is). He's also looked good against Indy playing key minutes alongside Amir against the beasts that Indy has. Also, I've said this before, just because someone starts/doesn't start it doesn't mean they have to get giant or few minutes. You say Bargs is suited to big minutes, he can get those big minutes off the bench as well.

This team isn't a contending team nor is it even a playoff team. Options should be considered at least, not struck down immediately.
So why can't Ed do what he does off the bench? I just don't see why AB HAS to go to the bench.... there is no diff. He's gotta score regardless.... if he's not scoring, then sit him. But the team needs him to make space for many anemic offensive players... Ed included.

Swapping AB and Ed is not this team's problem. It's a pointless debate... why do I even get sucked in? Cause I'm a maroon!
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:30 PM   #57 (permalink)
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So why can't Ed do what he does off the bench? I just don't see why AB HAS to go to the bench.... there is no diff. He's gotta score regardless.... if he's not scoring, then sit him. But the team needs him to make space for many anemic offensive players... Ed included.

Swapping AB and Ed is not this team's problem. It's a pointless debate... why do I even get sucked in? Cause I'm a maroon!
There's some balance to the team scoring wise if Bargs were to be on the bench, thus the bench not looking so horrible. It's been discussed that with someone who can shoot the 3 at SF, it would help to make space.

Your last part, nobody said it was this team's problem, it's a consideration/something to think about. Also, why do I always get sucked in when some people won't ever consider anything else/changing their stance.
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:51 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:07 PM   #59 (permalink)
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There's some balance to the team scoring wise if Bargs were to be on the bench, thus the bench not looking so horrible. It's been discussed that with someone who can shoot the 3 at SF, it would help to make space.

Your last part, nobody said it was this team's problem, it's a consideration/something to think about. Also, why do I always get sucked in when some people won't ever consider anything else/changing their stance.
Balance? This team needs his scoring to balance so many non-scorers. Last night, who would have scored in the first Q if not for his 17? Nobody. And they were still down after one.
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:52 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Balance? This team needs his scoring to balance so many non-scorers. Last night, who would have scored in the first Q if not for his 17? Nobody. And they were still down after one.
He had a good game but .41 FG % for a big isn't exactly world beating. Lowry and DD despite yesterday's game are still averaging .456 and .442 FG %. Yesterday's performance was nice in one area of the game. However, like always, what happens when he doesn't bring it on that end (like he has many times this season). He'd get his minutes regardless.

Look at yesterday, yes, he shot quite well but him and JV were murdered on the glass by Monroe and Drummond.
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