Are we at the bottom yet? - Page 2
Old 07-04-2011, 04:41 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I really don't think we are gonna be any better next year.
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Old 07-04-2011, 04:41 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I really don't think we are gonna be any better next year.
i do
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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i do
before I accept that you think they will be better, I'm going to need some hard evidence indicating that you think
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:59 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I think we're there. Next year should be better. But only slightly better. We'd be better because of our young guys getting a bit more experience and having a new coach. Hopefully we still draft around the same spot or get lucky in the draft.
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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as long as there were teams that finished below us and we have not significantly improved, at least at this point with the player development unknown, we can't honestly think it couldn't get any worse

record wise, if we didn't got 0-82 last year it means this year can still be worse
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Old 07-04-2011, 10:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
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before I accept that you think they will be better, I'm going to need some hard evidence indicating that you think
First off, if healthy this past season we would have won more imo. Second, i believe BC will make a couple good additions to the team, namely a Center. Third, Derozan will be going into his third season and i think will have his best season yet. Now, how much better who knows. But add to that, i believe we have a better coach we should be better.
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Old 07-04-2011, 10:31 PM   #27 (permalink)
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in order to be "better", i think we have to first be "good".

there is some chance that we will suck slightly less, but suck we will.
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Old 07-04-2011, 10:35 PM   #28 (permalink)
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in order to be "better", i think we have to first be "good".

there is some chance that we will suck slightly less, but suck we will.

Which is usually the order of things. Very rarely does a team go from 22 wins to a playoff team. But 30 wins would be better anyway you want to word it. Gotta start somewhere. Anyway, this discussion is premature since we have absolutely no clue what the roster will be whenever the next NBA season begins.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:59 AM   #29 (permalink)
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First off, if healthy this past season we would have won more imo. Second, i believe BC will make a couple good additions to the team, namely a Center. Third, Derozan will be going into his third season and i think will have his best season yet. Now, how much better who knows. But add to that, i believe we have a better coach we should be better.
Almost every team in the NBA needs to deal with injured players, and I am talking abt their best player such as Redd, Roy etc... If we can't overcome that it means our roster sucks and isn't deep enough.
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Old 07-05-2011, 12:09 PM   #30 (permalink)
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If we can't overcome that it means our roster sucks and isn't deep enough.
isn't that a fairly standard scenario for a team in the beginnings of a complete rebuild?
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Old 07-05-2011, 12:11 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Almost every team in the NBA needs to deal with injured players, and I am talking abt their best player such as Redd, Roy etc... If we can't overcome that it means our roster sucks and isn't deep enough.
No shit. A bad team that has the second most man games lost in the league gets ya 22 wins. Those teams you brought up there can deal with injuries a lot more then we can since they're better/Deeper teams. Us in the first year of rebuilding loses our best rebounder for 3 months, our best bench player loses games for injuries and plays with a bum wrist the whole season and then Kleiza has a lost season, not to mention Weems missing a bunch of games....it impacts us a lot more. It's not just an excuse it's a fact. At times we had 8-9 players dressed and some of them weren't 100%.
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Old 07-05-2011, 12:21 PM   #32 (permalink)
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No shit. A bad team that has the second most man games lost in the league gets ya 22 wins. Those teams you brought up there can deal with injuries a lot more then we can since they're better/Deeper teams. Us in the first year of rebuilding loses our best rebounder for 3 months, our best bench player loses games for injuries and plays with a bum wrist the whole season and then Kleiza has a lost season, not to mention Weems missing a bunch of games....it impacts us a lot more. It's not just an excuse it's a fact. At times we had 8-9 players dressed and some of them weren't 100%.
And this is exactly it, the GM should addess this. It is clear that we tried to tank, and the results were very mediocre at best. In the last few years we always had 3 PG, even if the 3rd PG wasn't that great, but at least we had a backup to the backup, this year JW was asked to play PG... This is crap.
By the time we may get better and Jonas becomes a decent players we may lose all our best talents to better teams.
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Old 07-05-2011, 12:43 PM   #33 (permalink)
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And this is exactly it, the GM should addess this. It is clear that we tried to tank, and the results were very mediocre at best. In the last few years we always had 3 PG, even if the 3rd PG wasn't that great, but at least we had a backup to the backup, this year JW was asked to play PG... This is crap.
By the time we may get better and Jonas becomes a decent players we may lose all our best talents to better teams.
Sounds like you're panicking already. We're no where near close to losing any of them. Center is the toughest position to fill in the NBA and you're worried that we're trying to fill that spot so soon in a rebuild? In fact, the JV pick is proof that they do know how to tank..... which is opposite of your claim.
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:34 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Sounds like you're panicking already. We're no where near close to losing any of them. Center is the toughest position to fill in the NBA and you're worried that we're trying to fill that spot so soon in a rebuild? In fact, the JV pick is proof that they do know how to tank..... which is opposite of your claim.
Not panicking at all, but if u think that a good player who may become a franchise player like DD will re-sign with a 20-30 win team like the Raps, while he has offers from Chicago, Knicks, Lakers, Celtics.... do u really think he will re-sign ?!?!?!?
Bosh is the most recent example. He took a lower offer from the Heat, while leaving a few millions on the table.
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:53 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Not panicking at all, but if u think that a good player who may become a franchise player like DD will re-sign with a 20-30 win team like the Raps, while he has offers from Chicago, Knicks, Lakers, Celtics.... do u really think he will re-sign ?!?!?!?
Bosh is the most recent example. He took a lower offer from the Heat, while leaving a few millions on the table.
DeRozan will re-sign at least once... even if only for 3 years.... so he's here for at least 4 more. They all re-sign once for a min of 3. You can't run a franchise in fear of talent drift.
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:53 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Not panicking at all, but if u think that a good player who may become a franchise player like DD will re-sign with a 20-30 win team like the Raps, while he has offers from Chicago, Knicks, Lakers, Celtics.... do u really think he will re-sign ?!?!?!?
Bosh is the most recent example. He took a lower offer from the Heat, while leaving a few millions on the table.
what's the suggestion, then? capped out last year, got virtually nothing from bosh. hedo was a flop. now we have a small amount under the cap. what's the quick turnaround plan to make us deep?
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:04 PM   #37 (permalink)
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The city of Toronto has had some elite talent in each of their franchises:

Roy Holiday, Carlos Delgado, Vince Carter, Chris Bosh, Mats Sundin

With the exception of Mats, these players left at the prime of their career. Their franchises gave them a mediocre team. If this franchise continues on its path of mediocrity, we can expect the outflow of some outstanding players.
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:13 PM   #38 (permalink)
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all of those players re-upped during the prime of their careers as well. halladay was here forever, so was carlos and mats. we traded carlos, mats was at the end of his career and roy only left after repeated attempts to make it work here. and it was an extraordinarily difficult decision for him, as evidenced by the fact that he broke down when he announced it.

vince left after being a pouty baby. Bosh left under complicated circumstances (which may include collusion among players).

not much of a list, really.
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:15 PM   #39 (permalink)
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The city of Toronto has had some elite talent in each of their franchises:

Roy Holiday, Carlos Delgado, Vince Carter, Chris Bosh, Mats Sundin

With the exception of Mats, these players left at the prime of their career. Their franchises gave them a mediocre team. If this franchise continues on its path of mediocrity, we can expect the outflow of some outstanding players.
Exactly.
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:32 PM   #40 (permalink)
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all of those players re-upped during the prime of their careers as well. halladay was here forever, so was carlos and mats. we traded carlos, mats was at the end of his career and roy only left after repeated attempts to make it work here. and it was an extraordinarily difficult decision for him, as evidenced by the fact that he broke down when he announced it.

vince left after being a pouty baby. Bosh left under complicated circumstances (which may include collusion among players).

not much of a list, really.
Under all those circumstances, these players left via trade or free agency because their teams could not build a winner behind them. Its not like Toronto never had a winner. Toronto had a winner with some outstanding players like Alomar, Carter, Molitor, Ward, Henke, Olerud. If Toronto is going to retain some of its elite talent, its time for its franchises to start winning some games. Didn't Toronto (leafs & raptors) rank as on of the bottom franchises in a recent survey when comparing payroll & team wins.
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