Are we in for another Jose vs Ford Part deux? - Page 5
Old 07-18-2009, 11:34 PM   #81 (permalink)
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yep - to me this season puts his career as a Raptor somewhat in the balance.

can he last a full season playing as a starter?

can he play through injuries?

can he play the way we need him to play?
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Old 07-19-2009, 12:02 AM   #82 (permalink)
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I was right there must have been a sale on weed.

We are debating about a player who still is not a raptor and has not played a game for us. We are comparing a guy who shoots 44% FG, 33 % 3PT, 85 % FT to our player that would give up his life for this team. We are comparing a player that is a better 2 guy to our #1 PG. I am embarrassed to be a raptor fan when I read garbage on this thread. There are alot guys on this thread that I would hate to call them a team mate.
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Old 07-19-2009, 12:14 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Really? He would give up his life? He really is a matador then?
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Old 07-19-2009, 12:38 AM   #84 (permalink)
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You watch how many times Rondo, Kidd, Nelson, Billups even Blake, get in the paint, or seel a bigman on the baseline and assist on rebounds during the course of the game, and compare that with Jose doing the same thing, and you have to have some serious doubts about Jose leading the team to a championship as a starting pg.

Either,

a), the team has to be so good from the other 4 positions at that department.

or,

b) Jose has to be such a powerful offensive force that you can't take him off the court, like Steve Nash from a few years ago. And as efficient as Jose is, he is not close to as good as Nash was offensively.
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Old 07-19-2009, 01:02 AM   #85 (permalink)
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yep - to me this season puts his career as a Raptor somewhat in the balance.

can he last a full season playing as a starter?

can he play through injuries?

can he play the way we need him to play?
These questions could apply to Bosh and Bargs as well.

I think Hedo's creativity will help Calderon's game. There is going to be less emphasis on Jose to create offensively in the half-court sets, allowing him to spot up for open looks.
The whole offense should have a slightly different look with Turkoglu on the wing playing pick and roll (and pop, but hopefully more roll) with Bosh and Bargnani. We should see less of the ball in Calderon's hands at the top of the floor and many more open jumpers from one of the better spot up shooting pg's in the league.
Jack can knock 'em down as well and should fit in nicely spelling Jose and whoever the starting 2 turns out to be.
I have no idea what Jack's personality is like, but we were witnesses to TJ Ford's selfish style of play when he was here. Is it any wonder there was friction in Indiana?
BC overpaid to sign Jack, ergo he'll see significant minutes and should be satisfied. If the team performs to expectations and wins, there probably won't be a point guard controversy. If the team sucks for some reason then you'll start to see people placing blame and choosing sides.
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Old 07-19-2009, 01:23 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Nailed it, Dann.
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Old 07-19-2009, 10:08 AM   #87 (permalink)
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If the team sucks for some reason then you'll start to see people placing blame and choosing sides.
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Nailed it, Dann.
The blame game and choosing of sides has already started guys and we have not won or lost a ball game. Hell the player mentioned in the comparison is not even a raptor. Hell,who is this Jack guy ? Maybe the thread should have read , Who is Jarett Jack ???? lol .

Calderon goes all out and gives you 100 % all the time. The only guy on the team that got into Kevin Garnett's egotisical face. The guy that leads and supports his mates. The guy that played when he was hurt because he was better injured then our backups were at 100 %. The guy that really took a pay cut by resigning with the raptors, we all know that Calderon was being targeted by a number of teams. This guy is all about winning,about playing for Toronto, its not about him.

Everyone has their right to their opinion and I respect that however this type of attitude just stirs the pot. We all what to see our team win. It's not about Jack and Jose its about the team. Jack will be a tremendous upgrade to the bench, why not leave it at that. Why can't we just rally around our team for a change and support our players. Players that give their all and play hard for the Toronto Raptors are winners in my book regardless of the out come. Its the guys that don't show up and me type players that should be ripped.
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Old 07-19-2009, 12:14 PM   #88 (permalink)
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It might have something to due with being committed to the team that pays him eight million a season. Since last season was plagued with poor health and poor play, it shouldn't be the toughest decision of his career.
He has said it was, and also clearly said he wasnt going to the Eurobasket to rest his leg and be able to be 100% again for the Raptors. I have listened and watched at least 5 interviews of him since the season ended and he always says the same thing. The pinky has been healthy for a while too.
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Old 07-19-2009, 12:59 PM   #89 (permalink)
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You watch how many times Rondo, Kidd, Nelson, Billups even Blake, get in the paint, or seel a bigman on the baseline and assist on rebounds during the course of the game, and compare that with Jose doing the same thing, and you have to have some serious doubts about Jose leading the team to a championship as a starting pg.

Either,

a), the team has to be so good from the other 4 positions at that department.

or,

b) Jose has to be such a powerful offensive force that you can't take him off the court, like Steve Nash from a few years ago. And as efficient as Jose is, he is not close to as good as Nash was offensively.
How many teams in the past 20 years have won with a dominant PG?

You have Billups (DET), Parker (SA) and Thomas (DET). And I guess you can throw Rondo (BOS) in there too if you like.

But you also have to realize that teams won WITHOUT a great PG (LAL, HOU, CHI, SA with Avery Johnson).

Jose is more than good enough to guide a team to a title. He's not going to be dominant like a Kidd, Paul or Nash.... but he's miles better than most out there.
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Old 07-19-2009, 03:34 PM   #90 (permalink)
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rondo was below average when boston won it all - they got lucky by not playing against many top PGs that season (only billups).
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Old 07-19-2009, 03:40 PM   #91 (permalink)
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rondo was below average when boston won it all - they got lucky by not playing against many top PGs that season (only billups).
Avg? Sure.

Below avg? Not likely..... "below avg." is Will Solomon.
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Old 07-19-2009, 04:21 PM   #92 (permalink)
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rondo was a rookie when they've won the title, he was easily below average. While a good defender, he was a major liability on offense.

Will Solomon is not below average, he's just not nba level. Below average is Anthony Johnson ...
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Old 07-19-2009, 05:17 PM   #93 (permalink)
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i dunt know about jack because i havnt seen him play, but from what i have seen Calderon is all about winning. If it means him playing less minutes but his team winning more games, i think he would be good with that
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Old 07-19-2009, 07:43 PM   #94 (permalink)
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How many teams in the past 20 years have won with a dominant PG?

You have Billups (DET), Parker (SA) and Thomas (DET). And I guess you can throw Rondo (BOS) in there too if you like.

But you also have to realize that teams won WITHOUT a great PG (LAL, HOU, CHI, SA with Avery Johnson).

Jose is more than good enough to guide a team to a title. He's not going to be dominant like a Kidd, Paul or Nash.... but he's miles better than most out there.
Who said anything about needing a dominant point guard?

I used to think LX was a bit crazy with his "Jose plays scared since he saw TJ got wacked" talk. But last season I really noticed how Jose doesn't like battling with bigger players. He might even fear it. He'll pick and choose his spots, but more often than not, he opts out of battling with those guys.

Which is fine. If he's a dominant offensive player that you have to have on the floor. We don't need a dominant point guard torap, I'm just saying with the way Jose plays on the defensive end, he has to be a dominant offensive point guard to justify being the starting point guard on a team that wants to win a championship.

Dann mentioned how he'll be helped with Hedo being a main ball distributor in half-court sets. But then my question is what purpose does Jose serve that sets him apart from being an average point guard on an average team.

On a team full of shooters, having a point guard with some length who can defend will be more valuable than another point guard who can only shoot the ball.

Jose is a good guy, but he isn't winning us a championship as a starting point guard. Which is fine. He is still a top 20 pg in the world.

Last edited by bjjs; 07-19-2009 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 07-19-2009, 07:47 PM   #95 (permalink)
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rondo was a rookie when they've won the title, he was easily below average. While a good defender, he was a major liability on offense.

Will Solomon is not below average, he's just not nba level. Below average is Anthony Johnson ...
Getting in the paint is over-rated isn't it.
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:14 PM   #96 (permalink)
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I used to think LX was a bit crazy with his "Jose plays scared since he saw TJ got wacked" talk.
Take it from me - I'm a bit crazy.

And I think as much as there was some fear involved with Jose, it was his physical condition that was a bigger factor. I think he actually figured out that there was no room for fear in this league and that giving into it at all brings plenty of intimidation. But still his body betrayed him. His injuries always come without contact. That has to mess with his mind a bit on it's own. If he can make his body respond well to a full schedule, then we are going to see a different guy.
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Old 07-20-2009, 12:05 AM   #97 (permalink)
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rondo was a rookie when they've won the title, he was easily below average. While a good defender, he was a major liability on offense.

Will Solomon is not below average, he's just not nba level. Below average is Anthony Johnson ...
Would you have rather had Solomon over Rondo over and AJ?

Anthony Johnson is actually a decent PG.
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Old 07-20-2009, 12:09 AM   #98 (permalink)
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rondo was a rookie when they've won the title, he was easily below average. While a good defender, he was a major liability on offense.

Will Solomon is not below average, he's just not nba level. Below average is Anthony Johnson ...
Actually, he was in his second year, but okay.

Anthony Johnson is better than Solomon. Maybe hes not the better athlete, but he has a better basketball IQ
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Old 07-20-2009, 01:18 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Actually, he was in his second year, but okay.
no, he was a rookie.
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Old 07-20-2009, 01:22 AM   #100 (permalink)
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Drifting away from the topic a bit, but Rondo was definitely a sophomore. He was Bargs' draft class.
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