Are we in for another Jose vs Ford Part deux? - Page 4
Old 07-18-2009, 01:28 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I will never understand why people continue to judge Jose's worth as a starting PG by his performance last season.

HE WAS INJURED.

For 80% of the season!

Did anyone else notice how much better he looked over the last few weeks of the season once his hammy had healed? His drive to the bucket came back, his lateral quicks came back (which allowed him to play better positional D) and his CONFIDENCE came back.

He was a different player from the one that we had seen for most of the season.

Critics are going to eat their words this season regarding Jose.... With him sitting out the national team he should be fresher (and healthier) than ever. And with a plethora of options on the court to utilize I'd expect him to have a great, great year.
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Old 07-18-2009, 05:36 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I'm not going to be upset if I'm wrong, TO. I just have a hard time believing Calderon's injuries lasted throughout 80% of the season, which conveniently healed against an easier schedule when we were out of the playoff race.

Also, what else do we have to judge him on as a starting point guard? He was a great back-up. Best we've ever had. When he took over for TJ, he burned out even then and made bad decisions/non-decision come the end of the game. You have to look at it realistically. Last season was a repeat of his first season where he got injured or just lost all of his confidence and blamed the injury (i honestly believe the latter). I don't think he's mentally tough enough to be relied on, or become what he was for that stretch of 20 games over the course of a whole season.

For that, I'm glad we're getting Jarrett. He's reliable. Not quite the playmaker or shooter, but tougher and stronger. No one answered my previous question. In a tight game and you have the choice of Jack or Calderon to have in there, who do you go with? I don't think Jack has proven to be clutch by any means, but I think I would be more confident with him on the floor.
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:01 PM   #63 (permalink)
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I'm not going to be upset if I'm wrong, TO. I just have a hard time believing Calderon's injuries lasted throughout 80% of the season, which conveniently healed against an easier schedule when we were out of the playoff race.

So, if he is healed now, why did he renounced to the national team, probably making one of the toughest decisions in his career?
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:13 PM   #64 (permalink)
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It might have something to due with being committed to the team that pays him eight million a season. Since last season was plagued with poor health and poor play, it shouldn't be the toughest decision of his career.

Also, aside from his surgery on his finger, he was healed. You can ask TO

Seriously, why don't all the pro-injury Calderon fans get together and come up with a healthy/injured time-line. It's confusing hearing it change to suit the arguments requirements.
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:44 PM   #65 (permalink)
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It might have something to due with being committed to the team that pays him eight million a season. Since last season was plagued with poor health and poor play, it shouldn't be the toughest decision of his career.

Also, aside from his surgery on his finger, he was healed. You can ask TO

Seriously, why don't all the pro-injury Calderon fans get together and come up with a healthy/injured time-line. It's confusing hearing it change to suit the arguments requirements.
As far I know Jose WAS healthy for those last few weeks of the season. I believe that he said as much himself. I'm guessing that he's sitting out the national team this summer for the same reasons that Nash doesn't play for Canada (the same reason that you mentioned in your post).... he simply wants to rest up and come into the season fresh.

As for Jose's mental toughness and leadership..... I would think that his past performances for Spain would settle that argument.
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:52 PM   #66 (permalink)
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jack didn't really replace tj as a starter, tj went down with an injury so jack stepped in and he was doing ok so when tj came back they kept it that way for a bit, after they ended up using both players in the starting lineup
that's not accurate, they only played together for a few games. And even before the injury, jack was finishing some games with tj on the bench. The injury was just the excuse to bench him. If Calderon, Rondo. Nash, Paul, Deron etc get injured, they will not be benched for the remainder of the season when they return. And yet, it happened to TJ twice in the past two years.
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:52 PM   #67 (permalink)
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as far as jose's health, I guess it remains to be seen this season, no point in beating a dead horse.
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:58 PM   #68 (permalink)
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that's not accurate, they only played together for a few games. And even before the injury, jack was finishing some games with tj on the bench. The injury was just the excuse to bench him. If Calderon, Rondo. Nash, Paul, Deron etc get injured, they will not be benched for the remainder of the season when they return. And yet, it happened to TJ twice in the past two years.
And let's not forget that MIL chose Charlie Bell and Mo Williams over him as well.

It's been a recurring trend.
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:16 PM   #69 (permalink)
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It's been a recurring trend.
TJ's health is the recurring trend.

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As for Jose's mental toughness and leadership..... I would think that his past performances for Spain would settle that argument.
A 82 game schedule says otherwise.
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:20 PM   #70 (permalink)
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So we should doubt Jose because of his health but forgive TJ?

That makes no sense.
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:34 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Your comment makes no sense. We got TJ with doubts about his health. I don't think there's a single person who doesn't doubt his health. He's fought back from a career ending injury, and that's the same injury that continuously sidelines him. Question his health, but you cannot question his toughness for fighting back.
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:38 PM   #72 (permalink)
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I am pretty sure the "battle of the point guards" is not going to repeat itself as far as the team and the actual players are concerned. Here and on the other forums, I am pretty sure now, the fans are going to fight a brand new battle.

Funk, love or hate Calderon, could we please set the torches and the pitchforks aside until at least December?

I shudder to think how many threads like this one are in our near future if some sort of truce is not achieved. With the much-renewed roster, shouldn't we rather concentrate on some positives that are finally happening?

Last edited by MikeToronto; 07-18-2009 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:44 PM   #73 (permalink)
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So, if he is healed now, why did he renounced to the national team, probably making one of the toughest decisions in his career?
It's only the Euro's, my bet is he wouldn't have done it in an Olympic year.
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:48 PM   #74 (permalink)
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I don't think these threads will exist once the Calderonios stop talking about Ford like he was a bad thing for our franchise....

Mike, I am talking about the positives. Calderon playing less minutes!!!!
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:51 PM   #75 (permalink)
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How many times did Jose say he was healthy last season?
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:56 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Your comment makes no sense. We got TJ with doubts about his health. I don't think there's a single person who doesn't doubt his health. He's fought back from a career ending injury, and that's the same injury that continuously sidelines him. Question his health, but you cannot question his toughness for fighting back.
Even when healthy TJ Ford wasn't one of the top PGs in the league.

He was a dynamic scorer in a tiny body. Very similar to Mike James (who everyone hated for some reason).

Yes, he got into the paint.

Yes, he pushed the ball.

But he also turned it over at the worst possible time.... tried to do too much... and pouted when he wasn't the starter.

The way that you talk about him you'd think that he was Chris Paul or something..... TJ was effective for us in spurts but as a starting PG there's no way that he's better than Jose..... or Jack.
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Old 07-18-2009, 08:08 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Neither are top point guards, so what's it matter? Ford isn't a Raptor, so why do with always defend Calderon by reverting to Ford's weaknesses? I haven't talked about Ford's game, so how the hell am I making him sound like Chris Paul?

Regardless, Calderon played best when he was playing 25 minutes a night. Lets hope that Jack's good play continues over to this season so we can have the strongest point guard rotation in the league.
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Old 07-18-2009, 08:54 PM   #78 (permalink)
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I'd feel better with Jose playing 25-30 min/gm as well... so we agree on that.

I still feel that Jose is a much better PG than Ford though.

Sue me.
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Old 07-18-2009, 11:23 PM   #79 (permalink)
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How many times did Jose say he was healthy last season?
He only said he was 95-99% after his good games and 80% after the bad ones. To his credit, he never really said he was fully healthy until the team started winning and they had no chance at the playoffs. WHICH WAS PURELY A COINCIDENCE!!!!

I hope Jose shows last year was just a bad year, for whatever reason. I hope he plays the kind of basketball that made me fall in love with his game in the first place.

But I'm skeptical.
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Old 07-18-2009, 11:30 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Why, though? Unlike Delfino, he was never making much playing over there. If I were him, I'd stick around, improve my game, take full advantage of possible injuries and look for the opportunities to either sign a good contract with another team after this one is over or, maybe, stick around with the Raps in a combo-guard role, like the one Douby seems destined to play this season - and Ukic is close to 6"5', don't forget that.

Sign a good contract with another team? Who the hell would give him more then what he makes now, which is probably too much.As for him being 6'5", big deal.
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