Are we in for another Jose vs Ford Part deux? - Page 3
Old 07-17-2009, 08:53 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I give a shit about it. Calderon has shown a stretch of 20+ games where he's capable of being a noteworthy starting point guard, and that was a season and a half ago.
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Old 07-17-2009, 08:57 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I give a shit about it. Calderon has shown a stretch of 20+ games where he's capable of being a noteworthy starting point guard, and that was a season and a half ago.
Yeah, that's all he's shown??


I think people are smoking too much of the happy smoke.
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:10 PM   #43 (permalink)
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What else has he shown? I'll give him his high percentages, they're nice. He can have his ability to play the pick and roll, he's relied on it. What I can't give him is creating off the dribble, penetrating, creating contact, running the fast break, and anything remotely revolved around defence. Hell, I don't even really respect his low turnover ratio. He misses too many opportunities going safe.

Although you'll say I'm hating on him, I'm not. There's very few who have been able to do those things that I've mentioned on a regular basis, but the reality of it is that Calderon is very average. Him losing his job to someone who can do some of those mentioned on a semi-regular basis can easily be considered the great asset to our success. Defence being the biggest fattest example.
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:15 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Funk, you are a hard judge to please, you know that, right?

Calderon is not the type of PG you'd like, I'll give you that - but as you've noted yourself, there are what? 2-3 guys like this playing in the league right now? Paul, Rose, maybe Deron Williams?

Healthy Calderon works well for this team and even his defence is not all that bad. Hobbled Calderon doesn't work well at all. If/when Jack is signed, he will be a great complementary backup for Jose. Would you agree with these statements?
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:27 PM   #45 (permalink)
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What else has he shown? I'll give him his high percentages, they're nice. He can have his ability to play the pick and roll, he's relied on it. What I can't give him is creating off the dribble, penetrating, creating contact, running the fast break, and anything remotely revolved around defence. Hell, I don't even really respect his low turnover ratio. He misses too many opportunities going safe.

Although you'll say I'm hating on him, I'm not. There's very few who have been able to do those things that I've mentioned on a regular basis, but the reality of it is that Calderon is very average. Him losing his job to someone who can do some of those mentioned on a semi-regular basis can easily be considered the great asset to our success. Defence being the biggest fattest example.
Very average? The fact is you say bring somebody in that can do what Calderon doesn't do well? The fact is, that player will likely be worse at what Calderon does well. Plus his defence is nowhere near as bad as the haters make it out to be. When he was healthy last season he was fine on defence. Calderon is one of the better PG in the league and some will only point out his faults and point to excuses as to why his strengths aren't that impressive. Typical Raptor fans.

Like i said Calderon can't win here. If he doesn't turn the ball over, he's "too safe", yet when T.J was here and he turned the ball over alot more, most here said he played out of control.
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:35 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Sup Mike

I definitely agree that Jack is a great choice to back-up Calderon. I'm just not 100% sure that I believe that Jose will work as well with this team dynamics, though. Unlike the seasons of past, I don't see us strictly relying on the two man game between Calderon/Ford and Bosh.

What worries me is that Calderon is very ball dominant. I wonder how effective will he play with either Turkoglu or Jack. Also, it's not like Calderon and Bargs had great chemistry either.
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:40 PM   #47 (permalink)
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with hedu, Calderon will shine. He won't be asked to create as much, which will allow him to stay rested. When rested, he's a great PG, near all star. He is steady, doesn't panic, doesn't make bad decisions, he's organized and plays under control and he's the best shooting PG in the game.

As far as being a ball hog, that's ridiculous, as with all european players, Calderon is more than willing to pass, as seen in his FG/Assists ratio, which is really good.
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:44 PM   #48 (permalink)
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with hedu, Calderon will shine. He won't be asked to create as much, which will allow him to stay rested. When rested, he's a great PG, near all star. He is steady, doesn't panic, doesn't make bad decisions, he's organized and plays under control and he's the best shooting PG in the game.

As far as being a ball hog, that's ridiculous, as with all european players, Calderon is more than willing to pass, as seen in his FG/Assists ratio, which is really good.

I think with Turkoglu handling the ball at times Calderon can get more open looks, which is nothing but a good thing for us.
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:44 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Sup Mike

I definitely agree that Jack is a great choice to back-up Calderon. I'm just not 100% sure that I believe that Jose will work as well with this team dynamics, though. Unlike the seasons of past, I don't see us strictly relying on the two man game between Calderon/Ford and Bosh.

What worries me is that Calderon is very ball dominant. I wonder how effective will he play with either Turkoglu or Jack. Also, it's not like Calderon and Bargs had great chemistry either.
's all good, man.

Calderon is a very good three-point shooter. Unlike many pass-first PGs who can't consistently make a long bomb (see Kidd, Jason), I believe Jose is going to be all right when sharing the play-making duties with Hedo - all he has to do in such scenarios is find himself a nice corner and wait for the ball...
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:45 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I never called him a ball hog. He's very far from that, almost like it's a confidence/conscience issue.

I hope you're right, Moremilk. I like Calderon at 25-30 minutes a night.
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:58 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I like Calderon at 25-30 minutes a night.
And that's what he is going to play with Jack here. The smaller amount of mpg will also preserve him from those nagging injuries.
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:02 PM   #52 (permalink)
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And that's what he is going to play with Jack here. The smaller amount of mpg will also preserve him from those nagging injuries.
I'm willing to bet he still gets around 33MPG. Either way Ukic should be looking to go back to Europe.
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:07 PM   #53 (permalink)
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I'm willing to bet he still gets around 33MPG. Either way Ukic should be looking to go back to Europe.
Why, though? Unlike Delfino, he was never making much playing over there. If I were him, I'd stick around, improve my game, take full advantage of possible injuries and look for the opportunities to either sign a good contract with another team after this one is over or, maybe, stick around with the Raps in a combo-guard role, like the one Douby seems destined to play this season - and Ukic is close to 6"5', don't forget that.
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:08 PM   #54 (permalink)
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33 and you're looking at repeat of this past season. I hope it's closer to 25 minutes.

Pending on DeMar and Wright's play, who do you guys think will be finishing tight games? To me, that's what matters most.
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:19 PM   #55 (permalink)
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JJ was for sure told that he was coming here to be a back up and there will be no pg controversy. also i read that he will probably play some sg.
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:28 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Jose had better be in good enough shape to play 30 minutes or he should be traded.

I don't think he'll have a problem passing the ball off. In Europe he was very accustomed to that. His ball dominance really only came into play with a slower-paced game that they needed to play to save his legs and hold possession so that his defense couldn't be exploited as much. If there is another guy in DeRozen or Wright or Jack that can guard the best opposing guard, then that alone helps Jose to not have to slow the game down.

He needs to come into this season with some kind of ability to be durable, to push the ball and look for early offense out of habit rather than being forced to do so, to trust the other unselfish playmakers that are going to be around him, and to look for his own shot more. I don't think it's much of a reach to get there. I think he finished off last season being a long way there. And if he can be a more complete player right from day one, then there's no question about what his role is going to be.

Make the guy durable at all and he's going to show so much more.
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Old 07-17-2009, 11:12 PM   #57 (permalink)
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this is no TJ vs Jose because jack is not at that level of player
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Old 07-17-2009, 11:29 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I know why ugo calls him a ball hog, because when Calderon has to create in a half court set against a decent defender, he often finds himself in trouble, and keep poking to try to find holes.

And 35 minutes per game should be no problem for jose, because there will be less strain on him to initiate every attack (he was our best creator, even though it's not saying much)
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Old 07-17-2009, 11:30 PM   #59 (permalink)
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this is no TJ vs Jose because jack is not at that level of player
given that jack replaced tj as the starter, one could argue that tj is not at jack's level.
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Old 07-18-2009, 01:06 AM   #60 (permalink)
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given that jack replaced tj as the starter, one could argue that tj is not at jack's level.
jack didn't really replace tj as a starter, tj went down with an injury so jack stepped in and he was doing ok so when tj came back they kept it that way for a bit, after they ended up using both players in the starting lineup
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