We are all stupid [trade related]
Old 01-09-2009, 02:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default We are all stupid [trade related]

Myself included.

I've been reading here on RF and other message boards about potential trade ideas for Jermaine O'Neal to strengthen our team, and it just dawned on me: it's not going to happen. Not this year. Not unless something absolutely ridiculously fortuitous falls into our lap (like Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown type of lunacy).

Jermaine is an injury prone ex-superstar with 1 1/2 years left on his contract. His trade value right now is next to null; at the very least, he'd need to play a solid 20 game stretch to reassure GM's of his health.

We won't (and shouldn't) trade Bargnani because teams are all looking to get him on the cheap, and that especially won't happen with how well he's been playing lately. 29 GM's just let out a collective sigh after Andrea's recent play.

The plan has always been to develop Bargnani internally; on draft night Colangelo said that he was a 3-4 year project, and nothing has changed, except the opinions of fickle, fairweather fans (again, including yours truly). We all think we know what Colangelo is thinking, but we really don't. We are just making biased speculation from our armchairs.

-----------

Once again, Colangelo has set us up for a nice move long term. All of a sudden, once this season ends, Jermaine magically becomes a very valuable trade asset because he's not only a solid role player, but an expiring contract. All of a sudden, next season he may be able to net us a very good player on a bad contract. This year he's not an expiring contract, he's a salary albatross.

It is stupid to dump Jermaine for nothing this season, when he has value as both a player for us now and a trade asset next season. It is stupid to dump Jermaine for nothing, when he can still teach a few things to Andrea and Nathan Jawai, be a veteral locker room presence, and (hopefully) return healthy and help us get into the playoffs. It is stupid to dump Jermaine for nothing now because any plan that involves Jermaine-for-an-expiring-contract this season because of the massive cap space he gives us fails to consider the fact that we only have 8 players under contract for next season, and just to fill out our roster with role players will eat most of that cap space.

Last edited by BballWatcher; 01-09-2009 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:12 AM   #2 (permalink)
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While I agree BBall, how do we know JO isn't exaggerating the extent of his injuries because he left one headache in Indiana and now has found himself in another in Toronto? For all we know is he's flexing his muscle and trying to force BC hand in dealing him. There's no doubt the man is injury prone, but to what extent? A year and a half till his contract expires isn't that far away and still makes him a hot commodity in my opinion.
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:16 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I agree with Doc, besides look around the NBA, good teams still take on notoriously "injured" big ticket players and adjust accordingly.

First to mind is Shaq in Phoenix-sitting every second game on a back to back.(sucks a bit cause he's on my fantasy team.)
Second is McGrady-sitting lots of games to save him for the playoffs.
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:18 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I might be naive to think that, but nothing surprises me in professional sports these days.
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Its even being talked about at the RealGM by members who think JO's "Injury" could be a smokescreen.

Link: http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtop...?f=32&t=869331
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:28 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Who knows whats going on with that guy. Even before games they barely talk about whats going on with him and his "injury" I have to admit when oneal is playing he looks pretty good, plus he was kickin ass before he got "injured" again. I would rather keep him and get something much better next year when the NBA is fighting for a select few players.
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BballWatcher View Post
Myself included.

I've been reading here on RF and other message boards about potential trade ideas for Jermaine O'Neal to strengthen our team, and it just dawned on me: it's not going to happen. Not this year. Not unless something absolutely ridiculously fortuitous falls into our lap (like Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown type of lunacy).

Jermaine is an injury prone ex-superstar with 1 1/2 years left on his contract. His trade value right now is next to null; at the very least, he'd need to play a solid 20 game stretch to reassure GM's of his health.

We won't (and shouldn't) trade Bargnani because teams are all looking to get him on the cheap, and that especially won't happen with how well he's been playing lately. 29 GM's just let out a collective sigh after Andrea's recent play.

The plan has always been to develop Bargnani internally; on draft night Colangelo said that he was a 3-4 year project, and nothing has changed, except the opinions of fickle, fairweather fans (again, including yours truly). We all think we know what Colangelo is thinking, but we really don't. We are just making biased speculation from our armchairs.

-----------

Once again, Colangelo has set us up for a nice move long term. All of a sudden, once this season ends, Jermaine magically becomes a very valuable trade asset because he's not only a solid role player, but an expiring contract. All of a sudden, next season he may be able to net us a very good player on a bad contract. This year he's not an expiring contract, he's a salary albatross.

It is stupid to dump Jermaine for nothing this season, when he has value as both a player for us now and a trade asset next season. It is stupid to dump Jermaine for nothing, when he can still teach a few things to Andrea and Nathan Jawai, be a veteral locker room presence, and (hopefully) return healthy and help us get into the playoffs. It is stupid to dump Jermaine for nothing now because any plan that involves Jermaine-for-an-expiring-contract this season because of the massive cap space he gives us fails to consider the fact that we only have 8 players under contract for next season, and just to fill out our roster with role players will eat most of that cap space.
As the first guy who wrotte it would say: Ding! Ding! Ding!

NOTE: no saying you have copied and pasted it, just saying Doug has been saying this for a long time.
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
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JO for Marion.
that trade makes me laugh so hard because riley would never do it.
they already have a banged up C in magliore.
trading marion's(healthy) large contract for o'neal's(injury prone posterboy) large contract just doesnt make any sense for miami. miami desperately needs a healthy C. They dont have the depth we have with bargnani.

makes sense for toronto because we get rid of o'neal for a procutive player also with large expiring contract in 2010.

BC has his nuts in a knot with trying to move JO.
itll probably be another dud for a dud trade.
(injured tj for injured o'neal)
one of those.
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:52 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StresS View Post
JO for Marion.
that trade makes me laugh so hard because riley would never do it.
they already have a banged up C in magliore.
trading marion's(healthy) large contract for o'neal's(injury prone posterboy) large contract just doesnt make any sense for miami. miami desperately needs a healthy C. They dont have the depth we have with bargnani.

makes sense for toronto because we get rid of o'neal for a procutive player also with large expiring contract in 2010.

BC has his nuts in a knot with trying to move JO.
itll probably be another dud for a dud trade.
(injured tj for injured o'neal)
one of those.

I think JO for Marion is pretty posible.
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Belsius View Post
I think JO for Marion is pretty posible.
if you were riley would you do it?
what does miami gain that they dont have already in marion considering o'neal is going to miss a ton of games.
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I also don't see Miami's angle on JO for Marion, except if they are 100% sure Marion will walk in the offseason for nothing (doubtful, since so few teams are below the cap). They trade a productive player in Marion with a valuable expiring contract for an injury prone centre with another year on the books. Unless, of course, they have a "big plan" for 2010, like half of the rest of the NBA.
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BballWatcher View Post
I also don't see Miami's angle on JO for Marion, except if they are 100% sure Marion will walk in the offseason for nothing (doubtful, since so few teams are below the cap). They trade a productive player in Marion with a valuable expiring contract for an injury prone centre with another year on the books. Unless, of course, they have a "big plan" for 2010, like half of the rest of the NBA.
I think the "big plan" is precisely it. I don't see Dwayne Wade leaving, Miami as a location always seems to be popular, pair him up with say an Amare and say a Joe Johnson or a PG and you have a very good situation. Miami is a destination player would want to play in, much like Orlando, due to their tax structure and climate.

Also, Marion is out of place in Miami. Beasley is ready. They could sign Zo but he's just as injury prone as O'Neal and plus O'Neal has showed that he can score this season. If he's able to attract the double teams and open up the floor for Wade then it makes a lot of sense.
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
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meh, miami will go for boozer this summer, it was their plan all along, and now that utah has milsap, it's very likely they'll let boozer go (since they can't sign both boozer and milsap to big time contracts). JO will only get in the way (although it would fit perfectly there).
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:18 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If JO gets moved this season, it would be possibly to a team that needs more size going into the playoffs and prepared to give some value back, or it will just be BC caving in under pressure completely and giving him away. I have said a few times that I hope BC doesn't do anything rash and reactive, and that they can somehow ride through the rest of this season without killing another coach or a future star's future in trying to assuage the guy with the big contract.

This season could get much uglier. I'm really looking forward to next season if they can get there in one piece.
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I doubt BC will do anything rash, he's not that type of GM. Just because the fans get crazy and lose their head, it doesn't mean he feels the same.

Since he came here, no move of significance was made without thinking long term , which is what I like about him.
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:44 PM   #16 (permalink)
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So you're saying that you'd turn down a package that included a veteran star if Bargnani had moved too. I thought that was what a trade thread was for. To post a few possible trades that might help improve the raptors.
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Old 01-09-2009, 11:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Btw they'd probably dump Banks on us too in a Marion deal and maybe giving us back Wright and Anthony. So they'd be cutting a long contract + getting a desperately needed big for the next couple years.

When you have Dwayne Wade, a supporting cast of Beasely and JO can do damage. Wade in the playoffs is a scary, scary thing

The alternative would be to sign Boozer this summer. But for a guy coming off a big injury, in a movie that would kill your chances at a superior Bosh or Amare in 2010? Especially considering someone else could take Boozer and they'd be left with no star. Maybe they'd prefer this.

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Old 01-09-2009, 11:22 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I should also point out Banks' contract isn't as damaging as it seems for us if we were to do this move and resign Marion. If we do that move we won't really have money for a FA in 2010 anyways, considering we have to re-up Bosh and Bargs. We'd be a pretty nice 2011 player though with Kapono, Banks, and Hump coming off.

There's another hidden benefit with Marion too. We'd probably pay 9-10 mil to keep him (or less considering nobody else in FA has a need for him and we'd have the most space), which considering his current contract gives us 7-8 mil extra cap room. Considering we also have Parker, Graham, and Garbo's cap hit coming off this year as well, that'd give us like 17-18 mil + the MLE to work with and that's WITH a resigned Marion. That's really, really nice.

Last edited by The MVP of West Hollywood; 01-09-2009 at 11:25 PM.
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