Is Vince More Clutch Than Hedo?
Old 07-13-2009, 04:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Interesting ... stats aside, does anyone agree with this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Sentinel
A Sentinel statistical analysis of fourth-quarter performance between the players reveals that Carter is more efficient in the final period and just may be more effective, too. In 75 fourth quarters last season, Carter shot better than 46 percent from the field and converted on 80.6 percent of his free throws. Turkoglu shot just under 38 percent in 101 fourth quarters last season and hit 79.6 percent of his free throws.
Source - Will Vince Carter be a better go-to guy for the Magic than Hedo Turkoglu? - OrlandoSentinel.com
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Eh, we got one of the and had the other I don't really think it matters as long as Hedo is clutch. If Hedo can provide us with clutch buckets I really don't care
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gurk View Post
Eh, we got one of the and had the other I don't really think it matters as long as Hedo is clutch. If Hedo can provide us with clutch buckets I really don't care
It's not disputing whether or not Hedo gets you points in the clutch, it's a show of how efficient he's doing it.

I'd wager that Vince was relied on less in the fourth quarter than Turkoglu was because the ball tended to go to Devin Harris a lot of the time as well. I would assume Turkoglu's taken more shots which could be a reason as to why his percentages are lower. Vince has ice water in the clutch though, always has.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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When we evaluate seasons lets not forget that Hedo continued to be clutch and went to the NBA finals.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Toronto Vs. Philly

Game Seven: Clunk
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Toronto Vs. Philly

Game Seven: Clunk
Oh no you deh-in't.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The entire 4th quarter isn't really a good measuring stick. You're not really clutch if you score 6 points in minutes 12-9 and then sit the rest of the quarter... I think it should only be 4 minutes and in games that are decided by 10 points or less. That would be a much better indicator of who is more clutch.

Having said that, I think Carter is hands down more clutch. Hedo made several HUGE shots in the playoffs and is very good in the final minutes as well. He's definitely going to be the best crunch time performer we have, no matter what the stats say. But when VC played for us, he was the only guy who could score in the final seconds or hit the buzzer-beater. I'm sure he missed a lot, but I can remember a lot of made threes/free throws/shots from VC in the final seconds. The only miss that comes to mind was against Philly in the final game of the playoffs when we almost beat them to go to the third round. Even last season the three that he hit against us was fucking heartbreaking.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Its too bad that winning doesn't just come down to making a big shot. Carter is soft and she's shown it time and time again. Let's see what happens when LBJ or Pierce or dare I say Kobe hits the scene when the games really matter and suddenly the physicality is upped and the calls decrease.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
In 75 fourth quarters last season, Carter shot better than 46 percent from the field and converted on 80.6 percent of his free throws. Turkoglu shot just under 38 percent in 101 fourth quarters last season and hit 79.6 percent of his free throws.
Notice that it's 75 fourth quarters for VC compared to 101 for Turkoglu. How on earth do they think either team had that many 4th quarter clutch situations - 75? 101? Ridiculous.

I wonder what Hedo's FG% would have been if they omitted the playoffs in the calculation. There was probably tougher competition in the playoffs, no?

Also, you have to feel like Orlando had more fourth quarter clutch situations last year than did NJ, even during the regular season.

Not to mention, as was pointed out above, that Devin Harris took a lot of NJ's 4th quarter clutch shots.

I wouldn't call this article BS, but it certainly seems overblown to say the least.

Last edited by bogus; 07-13-2009 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vellassco View Post
hedo's and VC's clutch time stats respectively.
Nifty stats, but a little misleading considering Hedo played on a much better team.

It's tough to determine something like this just by using statistics. So many factors to consider that the whole thing becomes one grey area. Something like this has to be subjective.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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its not a matter of vc being clutch or not, its more of whether he feels like playing the rest of the minutes in the game or if he just wants to stand around
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Notice that it's 75 fourth quarters for VC compared to 101 for Turkoglu. How on earth do they think either team had that many 4th quarter clutch situations - 75? 101? Ridiculous.

I wonder what Hedo's FG% would have been if they omitted the playoffs in the calculation. There was probably tougher competition in the playoffs, no?

Also, you have to feel like Orlando had more fourth quarter clutch situations last year than did NJ, even during the regular season.

Not to mention, as was pointed out above, that Devin Harris took a lot of NJ's 4th quarter clutch shots.

I wouldn't call this article BS, but it certainly seems overblown to say the least.
FG% is not a fair way to discuss how clutch a player is. These players are totally different. Carter can and does slash at times for easy buckets while Turkoglu is more of a jump shooter. To really talk which is more clutch you need to bust out the metric stats.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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sure Vince is in NBALive 04...
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I would have to say Vince Carter is a better clutch player.
Turkoglu hit some big clutch shots but he is behind Carter.
Vince Carter has all the natural and physical skills to be one
of the top five players in the league. What has always stopped
him from being regarded as the best at his position is his
mental toughness, inconsistent effort level and sometimes
its like he wants to be the 2nd or 3rd option.
Lets compare Vince Carter to Kobe Bryant.
Kobe is the Black Momba and Vince is a Gardener Snake.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Hedo is in this time better than VC.VC won't be play so good like he was in Nets.Now there are other Stars who'd like to shoot instead of passing VC.And don't forget he's 33.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I wouldn't say they are too far off but it has to be Vince Carter.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Agreed VC is the better choice out of the 2 on paper...But this season will tell the whole story it will either show that VC's NBA age has caught up to him, or if he is able to get back to that other level of 50 point games in the playoffs.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halphbreedballer View Post
Agreed VC is the better choice out of the 2 on paper...But this season will tell the whole story it will either show that VC's NBA age has caught up to him, or if he is able to get back to that other level of 50 point games in the playoffs.
Unless Vince can magically shed the wear and tear of multiple knee surgeries, we won't see that Vince again.

Having said that, the thing I find amazing is that Vince can continue to drop 30 point games, in his 30s, after multiple knee surgeries, without even breaking a sweat. His talent level is incredible.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Vellassco with the fire.


VC has definately hit alot more in his career, but Hedo is a late bloomer....

I would say over the last couple seasons that Hedo is more clutch.

And Hedo certainly has alot more pressure, Not very often anymore VC is given the ball on a clearout and left to win the game, it is usually off of a Harris drive and kick that he spots up for the big shot(at least always against us)
Hedo takes the ball himself and creates, little more difficult.

And the stats that the writer from ORLANDO used are the wrong ones to use to determine what they wanted.
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