Vince Carter....HOFer! - Page 7
Old 01-22-2014, 02:12 AM   #121 (permalink)
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We at least have a good locker room where people like to play with each other. Fuck this guy. How does anyone think this is a good idea.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:42 AM   #122 (permalink)
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The guy had hall of fame talent, but never had the drive to achieve greatness.
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:34 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Going to the HOF is on my bucket list. If VC is let in, I will erase it from the list.

VC has no heart for winning. Even watching the old games of 2000/01, he looks like a player looking for his own.

Yes, he had the talent. But never the drive or mindset of a HOF player.

Lets stop all this revisionist thinking. The guy quit on all of us and his team. That is unforgivable.
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:47 PM   #124 (permalink)
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The guy quit on his team. He stopped trying and forced his way out - he was so bad at the time that there was no leverage to get anything good for him - but that was also a product of a crappy GM who didnt have the balls to wait for a decent deal. Then he admitted he gave up and didn't always try in interviews later. And to make it worse - he doesn't even think he did anything wrong! has he ever mentioned any type of regret or - God forbid - apologized? Nope. Maybe if he expressed some type of ownership for the the way things happened it would be easier to embrace the guy again.

Yes - there were plenty of problems in Toronto at the time including the coach GM and upper management. But there have been other players playing in bad situations that were professional about it. Look at Doc Halladay - he wanted out, he did it the right way and fans still love him. he would be welcomed back in Tornoto with open arms and will hopefully go in the HOF as Blue Jay.

I know we have no control over whether he gets into the hall or what logo he wears if he does, but I wouldn't any part of a Vince Carter celebration. There was talk of raising his jersey in to the ACC rafters, which I think would make the franchise look like chumps unless it was raised in a hangman's noose.
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:27 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Going to the HOF is on my bucket list. If VC is let in, I will erase it from the list.

VC has no heart for winning. Even watching the old games of 2000/01, he looks like a player looking for his own.

Yes, he had the talent. But never the drive or mindset of a HOF player.

Lets stop all this revisionist thinking. The guy quit on all of us and his team. That is unforgivable.
he quit on a lousy team with a lousy management, pretty much any other star in his place would have done the same. The only difference he was dumb enough to admit it.

bosh quit on the team too, lebron quit on the cavs despite having much better conditions there than vince ever did in toronto.

let's be honest here, the only thing that separates vince from any other player was his admissions. Without that, he'd be just another poor guy who fails because of canada's horrible conditions ...

The only argument against vince is that he never really did his best, for us or for any other team. He was soft and didn't have the passion for winning that kobe has. But the HOF is not a place for flawless players - he was one of the greatest talents of his generation, he has the stats, he won the all star voting multiple times (from canada nevertheless), he has the olympic medal, he has the dunking, he was a showman.

Don't hate him too much, it's not his fault that the GM was stupid enough to trade him for peanuts despite being locked long term under contract. We had all the leverage we wanted and we blew it. Did he quit on the team? Sure he did, as did the other 14 members -that wasn't a team worth fighting too much now, was it?
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:34 PM   #126 (permalink)
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he quit on a lousy team with a lousy management, pretty much any other star in his place would have done the same. The only difference he was dumb enough to admit it.

bosh quit on the team too, lebron quit on the cavs despite having much better conditions there than vince ever did in toronto.

let's be honest here, the only thing that separates vince from any other player was his admissions. Without that, he'd be just another poor guy who fails because of canada's horrible conditions ...

The only argument against vince is that he never really did his best, for us or for any other team. He was soft and didn't have the passion for winning that kobe has. But the HOF is not a place for flawless players - he was one of the greatest talents of his generation, he has the stats, he won the all star voting multiple times (from canada nevertheless), he has the olympic medal, he has the dunking, he was a showman.

Don't hate him too much, it's not his fault that the GM was stupid enough to trade him for peanuts despite being locked long term under contract. We had all the leverage we wanted and we blew it. Did he quit on the team? Sure he did, as did the other 14 members -that wasn't a team worth fighting too much now, was it?
I don't think you quite remember Vince's final years. Him quitting on the team resembled nothing like Bosh or Lebron's final year with Cleveland and the Raptors. And his teammates didn't give up like he did.

The comparisons you used aren't even close, but Vince quitting was 10 years + so it's understandable how that memory might be a bit foggy.

If Vince could somehow play an important part as a veteran and win a championship, I think his numbers will be good enough to make the HOF. He needs a final chapter to his story to make the HOF in my opinion - not quite there.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:57 PM   #127 (permalink)
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This is BS based on misguided nostalgia. Why would the Raptors want a 37 yr old bench warmer who is so close to retiring? Let it go.
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Old 01-22-2014, 04:09 PM   #128 (permalink)
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I don't think you quite remember Vince's final years. Him quitting on the team resembled nothing like Bosh or Lebron's final year with Cleveland and the Raptors. And his teammates didn't give up like he did.

The comparisons you used aren't even close, but Vince quitting was 10 years + so it's understandable how that memory might be a bit foggy.

If Vince could somehow play an important part as a veteran and win a championship, I think his numbers will be good enough to make the HOF. He needs a final chapter to his story to make the HOF in my opinion - not quite there.
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This is BS based on misguided nostalgia. Why would the Raptors want a 37 yr old bench warmer who is so close to retiring? Let it go.
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Originally Posted by Raptorman View Post
Going to the HOF is on my bucket list. If VC is let in, I will erase it from the list.

VC has no heart for winning. Even watching the old games of 2000/01, he looks like a player looking for his own.

Yes, he had the talent. But never the drive or mindset of a HOF player.

Lets stop all this revisionist thinking. The guy quit on all of us and his team. That is unforgivable.
All 3 of these posts pretty much sum up my feelings on the matter.

Let BKN retire your number VC.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:07 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Here is someone considerably out of touch on how Wince is regarded in Toronto:

Carter reflects on 'Vinsanity' era, his role shaping Canadian basketball | Dallas Morning News

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TORONTO — Mavericks fans have seen glimpses of Vince Carter’s greatness.

They can only imagine what it must have been like to see the man they called Vinsanity, Air Canada and Half-Man, Half-Amazing when he was doing all the acrobatic dunks and hang-time highlights that made him a legend in Toronto.

He’s as revered as any athlete in Toronto history who doesn’t play hockey, as evidenced by the dozen or so local reporters who wanted interviews with Carter after the Mavericks worked out at the Air Canada Centre practice court.

In short, he was basketball in this pucks-crazy town.

And Carter, in his second season with the Mavericks, has the memories embedded in his mind like snapshots.

“I remember when Vinsanity started, from an article [in the newspaper],” Carter said. “I remember when Half-Man, Half-Amazing started.

“I remember making the first basket here in history [at Air Canada Centre]. You can’t change that. Winning rookie of the year here, you can’t change that. Winning that dunk contest and putting Toronto on the [basketball] map, you can’t change that. Those are all historical to me. I put all three of those as one.”

Those are the first things Carter thinks of when he comes back to Toronto, where he teamed with Tracy McGrady in their young, other-worldly athletic days.

At 37, Carter still gets airborne as well as some of the kids that have followed in his ozone layer. He threw down a remarkable dunk against Portland on Saturday, and he breaks out those jaw-droppers on occasion.

But when he walked into the Raptors’ practice gym, he could really appreciate the trip back in time to when his aerial “wow” moments were plentiful.

“Of all the times I’ve been back, this is probably just my second time to come back to the practice facility,” Carter said. “This is where everything was created. This is where it was all built. Me, the team, winning our first playoff game — this is where it started. This is where I can say Oak [Charles Oakley] grabbed me over there at the 3-point line and said, ‘Hey, I’m going to make you a player in this league.’ That’s where the memories were made.”

Carter played for Toronto from 1998 to Dec. 17, 2004, when he was traded to New Jersey. Carter’s jersey will be retired someday by the Raptors. It’ll happen after his career is over. It wouldn’t be surprising if Toronto signed Carter to a ceremonial one-day contract so he could retire a Raptor.

He’s not the only former Raptor making a return to Toronto with the Mavericks for Wednesday’s game. Jose Calderon was with the Raptors for seven-plus seasons, a run that ended last season, when he was traded twice.

He made his first return to Air Canada Centre as an opponent last April and received a standing ovation. He even went to the wrong locker room by mistake when he first entered the building.

While Calderon is adored, Carter is idolized. It’s not uncommon to see Carter jerseys dotting the stands at Raptors games.

Mavericks coach Rick Carlisle is aware of the distractions for players such as Carter and Calderson when they return as fan favorites.

“I know how those things are for former players and former coaches like myself,” Carlisle said. “I can’t wait to get the ball thrown up and get on with the game. But these guys were both here a long time and were high-impact guys. These things can be emotional. The key is to get beyond the emotions.”

Carter said he’s treating it like a business trip. But sometimes that’s easier said than done.

On Monday in Cleveland, Carter got a chance to visit with Tristan Thompson, the Cavaliers’ young forward and a Toronto native.

“I had Tristan in my basketball camp many years ago,” Carter said. “It’s a pleasure and an honor. For one, it says I’ve been around a very long time. I mean, for them to have my poster on their wall when their mom’s reading them bedtime stories, and now I’m playing against these guys? I’m still a little uneasy about that part of it. But it’s a testament to how Canadian basketball has evolved and the boom that happened during that time.”

It was a boom Carter helped make happen, one giant, gravity-defying leap at a time.

Follow Eddie Sefko on Twitter at @ESefko
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:26 PM   #130 (permalink)
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I am on the fence about VC... I don't hate him anymore, but you can't deny that fact that he quit on the team/fans of Toronto straight up!

He was the most spectacular Raptor of all time...But is that enough when you are known as a quitter?
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:43 PM   #131 (permalink)
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I am on the fence about VC... I don't hate him anymore, but you can't deny that fact that he quit on the team/fans of Toronto straight up!

He was the most spectacular Raptor of all time...But is that enough when you are known as a quitter?
Agreed. I am grateful for what he did for basketball in Toronto, but at the same time I am extremely pissed with how everything ended with him. I place blame mostly on management for not trying to surround him with better talent during his last few years here, but part of his leaving was his fault.
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Old 01-22-2014, 08:18 PM   #132 (permalink)
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I hope this documentary sheds some new light on what went on. I still don't get it because the main issues seemed to be off-court. And why does Peddie's name keep coming up?
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:02 PM   #133 (permalink)
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edit wrong thread
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:24 PM   #134 (permalink)
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I don't think you quite remember Vince's final years. Him quitting on the team resembled nothing like Bosh or Lebron's final year with Cleveland and the Raptors. And his teammates didn't give up like he did.

The comparisons you used aren't even close, but Vince quitting was 10 years + so it's understandable how that memory might be a bit foggy.

If Vince could somehow play an important part as a veteran and win a championship, I think his numbers will be good enough to make the HOF. He needs a final chapter to his story to make the HOF in my opinion - not quite there.
first of all, it's not final "years", he quit on the final months, spanning two seasons. He quit on a team that was clearly going nowhere in order to force his way out of a long contract. Shocking ... never heard of any other star doing that before.

And how is this any different lebron quitting on his team in his final playoff series? Maybe you didn't watch the last playoff games lebron played in cleveland, it was a lot more disgusting than what vince did. Carter quit on a team that had no shot of doing anything, lebron quit on a team that was about to make it to the conference finals. Because, if god forbid, they actually win a title, imagine how hard would it be for him to "make" the decision that was already made ...
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:26 PM   #135 (permalink)
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This is BS based on misguided nostalgia. Why would the Raptors want a 37 yr old bench warmer who is so close to retiring? Let it go.
purely symbolic of course, think it would be a classy move if Carter would apologise for what he did and the Raptors would give him a one day contract (assuming he wants to retire this summer). A lot of kids still love him (just look at all the tshirts in the crowd at this game).
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:50 PM   #136 (permalink)
and that's the bottom line, cause JV said so!!!

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Seems like it's Peddie's word VS Carter's word.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:50 PM   #137 (permalink)
and that's the bottom line, cause JV said so!!!

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What exactly did Vince do to "betray" the fans?
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:51 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Watching this VC documentary, goddamn is Rob Babcock ever a hard-headed dude. He refuses to consider the fact that he might've been wrong in the way he handled the Vince situation.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:52 PM   #139 (permalink)
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What exactly did Vince do to "betray" the fans?
He quite obviously stopped trying and then forced his way out when his value was at an all time low, only to re-emerge as an allstar with new jersey. It was pathetic.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:53 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Watching this VC documentary, goddamn is Rob Babcock ever a hard-headed dude. He refuses to consider the fact that he might've been wrong in the way he handled the Vince situation.
yeah, unbelievable!!! babcock is a tool
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