Vince Carter....HOFer! - Page 10
Old 01-23-2014, 11:56 AM   #181 (permalink)
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I think you may be confused about what tanking fans would want.

Quitting on your team is unforgiveable. I don't care about Vince anymore - I wouldn't bother to boo him. But I sure as heck have zero interest in him coming back.
Are you sure he did? I mean, it certainly looked like it at the time, but I am starting to seriously doubt we know enough of what was going on in the organization to confidently pass judgement.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:59 AM   #182 (permalink)
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Are you sure he did? I mean, it certainly looked like it at the time, but I am starting to seriously doubt we know enough of what was going on in the organization to confidently pass judgement.
i know what i saw and heard (from vince himself) 10 years ago and imo he quit on this franchise. no amount of whitewashing on his part will change my opinion. not that i like peddie or babcock.......but vince can fuck off!
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:21 PM   #183 (permalink)
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Are you sure he did? I mean, it certainly looked like it at the time, but I am starting to seriously doubt we know enough of what was going on in the organization to confidently pass judgement.
The numbers don't lie, Mike. Check his stats before and after the trade.

But having watched all 20 of the games he played for the Raps that season, I don't need the numbers. It was disgustingly obvious.

I would much rather Vince Carter just disappeared quietly. None of the success we are going to have in the future is in any way owing to him and the legacy of his time here. We need to move forward.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:32 PM   #184 (permalink)
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Oh well, maybe I've aged into a softie.

But one thing is undeniable - VC has done great things for the growth of basketball in Canada. We are now reaping what that dunk contest and the playoff runs and the hoopla have sown. Whether it's enough to forgive the guy...
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:32 PM   #185 (permalink)
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:33 PM   #186 (permalink)
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As for "before and after trade" stats - do you think Gay was dogging it here?

Just playing devil's advocate, you know. Can't help but wonder how much better if felt for Vince playing with Kidd, Jefferson and Martin...
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:51 PM   #187 (permalink)
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i know what i saw and heard (from vince himself) 10 years ago and imo he quit on this franchise. no amount of whitewashing on his part will change my opinion. not that i like peddie or babcock.......but vince can fuck off!
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:07 PM   #188 (permalink)
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Even Genghis Khan is a funny cartoon character now. Maybe in time we can welcome back VC. Just not yet.
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:14 PM   #189 (permalink)
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Carter Interview (2005) - traded to Nets..." target="_blank">Vince Carter Interview (2005) - traded to Nets...

That is the interview you are referring to. Judge for yourself. Say's he was willing to take responsibility for how the team was playing, but the management was being funny with him. He says he basically used his talent, didn't really need to push himself, so he didn't. I don't know, I think the media twisted it a lot.
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:19 PM   #190 (permalink)
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I agree 100%.

Not only did this guy play his heart out while he was here (maybe lost some ambition near the end), he put Toronto on the map.
yes, he put toronto on the basketball map. he was incredible, and we repaid him with fame, fortune and hero status. but he didn't come close to playing his heart out here and that's the nut of the whole frustration around the guy. he was an otherworldly talent with ho intensity. he could rev it up when he had it going, for sure. but mostly he coasted, and in the end he flat out didn't try. to say that he lost some ambition is a considerable understatement. it was some of the laziest, pouty basketball i have ever seen from a professional. honestly, it was a joke. and the result of that nonsense, his value plummeted, the franchise got nothing out of him despite having him under contract (and this was also due to incompetent executive decision-making), and we hit the long-term shitter. no, it wasn't entirely his fault. but he quit, and that is inexcusable. all he had to do was be a pro and keep the business to the back office.

as to this quote:
Quote:
He says he basically used his talent, didn't really need to push himself, so he didn't.
yes, yes he did need to push himself. he could have been transcendent. he could have dominated. he could have attracted other players to play with him (or to stay with him). he could have led the team. he had veteran teammates and coaches willing him to grow a pair and play harder. but he didn't. and when he didn't like where it was going, he bailed.

Last edited by 'trane; 01-23-2014 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:36 PM   #191 (permalink)
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Default Toronto Raptors will inevitably honour Vince Carter after his retirement despite acri

Toronto Raptors will inevitably honour Vince Carter after his retirement despite acrimonious split

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Thank goodness Vince Carter had the sense to sign a multi-year deal late in his career with a team in the Western Conference. That ensures we will only have to go through this conversation once a year as Carter winds down his playing days.

Should the Raptors retire Carter’s No. 15? Should they at least hang a banner to honour him, as the Maple Leafs have done with several players? This conversation will happen every year until Carter decides he is done with playing.

“You guys are retiring me before I’m ready to retire,” Carter said Wednesday morning. His Mavericks make their only appearance in Toronto on Wednesday night. “No, I’m not ready for that, yet.”
That is fine with the Raptors, certainly. The conversation will not start until Carter retires. He will enter free agency after completing this season, his 16th in the NBA. There will be noise about the Raptors bringing him back as a veteran wing to complement DeMar DeRozan and Terrence Ross, which will make some sense since he would come cheaply. Of course, he would bring a lot of other baggage with him, too.

Let the debate end, though: After Carter’s career is done, the Raptors will honour him in some way. You can argue the degree to which he will be acknowledged, but it is going to happen. With almost the entirety of the Raptors organization having changed since Carter’s departure — minority owner Larry Tanenbaum is the only key figure that remains — and Toronto producing several NBA players who grew up during Carter’s tenure in Toronto, there is little reason not to honour him.

Except for his acrimonious exit from Toronto. Approaching the 10-year anniversary of the trade that sent him from the Raptors to the Nets, so many details are unknown. All we know for sure: at some point, Carter asked out of Toronto; Carter did not give a full effort in his final days in a Raptors uniform; Rob Babcock made an awful trade; and Carter said some silly things upon leaving.

It is clear, though, that Carter is thinking about his legacy as he approaches his 37th birthday, on Sunday.

“It was just a thing that happened,” Carter said of his breakup with the Raptors on Wednesday. “Some people feel like it was my fault. Some people feel like it was the organization.

“I hate that it happened for numerous … reasons. The franchise was on the rise there. At the same time they were trying to go in a different direction, I think. … As we’ve moved forward, a lot of things have come out and we kind of see what’s going on. It was just an ugly situation that happened that you can’t change now. As you move forward, you try to change it and try to make it right. … I don’t really like to quote the Bible and stuff because some people don’t believe in it — you’re taught to forgive and move on. It’s been a long time. Everybody’s grown up. Everybody’s moving forward. The organization has changed here. I’ve gotten older and moved on. It’s just like, hey, let’s remember what was important at the time: winning basketball and really striking the mood here and understanding that this a fun place to be, a fun place to play. A lot of people didn’t know it. Once the boom happened, meaning that wonderful night in February [the 2000 slam dunk contest], the recognition began. I think everywhere, it runs its course; time runs its course.”

Naturally, the only reason we are discussing this is because the Raptors have won precisely as many playoff series as the Bakersfield Jam since Carter skipped town. There is zero standard for honouring a player for this franchise, as this franchise has had what amounts to zero success.

Carter is the greatest individual talent to ever play for the Raptors, and, along with Chris Bosh, is the most productive player overall. However, he left the Raptors very much because he was concerned with his own timeframe. The Raptors can afford to consider their own timeframe before deciding to fete Carter. That it will happen, however, is inevitable.
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/...monious-split/

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Old 01-23-2014, 01:39 PM   #192 (permalink)
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There's no way we sign him unless its for the vet min....and even then, he would be smarter to sign with a contender and try to get that championship over retiring with a team that hates him/ he abandoned..... I still like him though and still got his jersey hanging on my wall so......
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:27 PM   #193 (permalink)
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Vince Carter Interview (2005) - traded to Nets from Toronto Raptors - YouTube

That is the interview you are referring to. Judge for yourself. Say's he was willing to take responsibility for how the team was playing, but the management was being funny with him. He says he basically used his talent, didn't really need to push himself, so he didn't. I don't know, I think the media twisted it a lot.
I agree. Even though the way everything went down sucked, I still support the guy and have his classic purple Raptors jersey with the big T-Rex on it.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:36 PM   #194 (permalink)
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As for "before and after trade" stats - do you think Gay was dogging it here?

Just playing devil's advocate, you know. Can't help but wonder how much better if felt for Vince playing with Kidd, Jefferson and Martin...
Gay wasn't dogging it (well perhaps a bit on D).... he was just an idiot trying to do too much.

There's a difference. If VC had just tried to take shots and pad his stats he'd have been avging 30/gm.... not 16 (which is what he was scoring when he left).
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:54 PM   #195 (permalink)
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I agree. Even though the way everything went down sucked, I still support the guy and have his classic purple Raptors jersey with the big T-Rex on it.
You should be aware that that is a raptor on your Raptors jersey, not a T-Rex.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:58 PM   #196 (permalink)
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It's over and done with. He left, and I remember the gloating on his face whenever he came back here and beat the Raptors. He was a con man when he was here, and he's still a con man pulling his " poor misunderstood me" act. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. If he wasn't a sinner, why is he trying so hard for redemption.
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Old 01-23-2014, 03:23 PM   #197 (permalink)
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I think this has probably all been orchestrated for the purposes of having Vince here for the All-Star game. You know what, if the suits make this team good enough to see the past with rose colored glasses then i have no problems with it. No big honors though - just give him his moment at the Legends Brunch, the celebrity game, and whatever other fluff, and then let us get on with something real.
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:46 PM   #198 (permalink)
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I think he should be a HOF because he was a top 5 player in the league for a number of years and his dunking was the stuff of legends.
not sure about top 5, after all, shaq, kobe, duncan, garnett, iverson, pierce and even his cousin we're always better players than him imo, but he was definitely top 5 if we're strictly talking talent.

my take on the whole Carter thing, if the habs organization and fans forgave patrick roy, the Raptors will likely forgive carter. everyone should have moved on by now, it's been a decade, and the positives clearly outweigh the negatives.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:07 PM   #199 (permalink)
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You should be aware that that is a raptor on your Raptors jersey, not a T-Rex.
I know it's a Raptor. The only reason why I called it a T-Rex was because that is what I called it when I had Vince sign that jersey for me back in 2000. I was only 8 years old then, so I just keep referring to it as the T-Rex jersey no matter how stupid it sounds because it brings back great memories.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:52 PM   #200 (permalink)
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bosh will be hated forever, atleast we got SOMETHING for vince, just makes me think. Bosh will be hated forever
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