Valanciunas and Bargnani can work defensively together
Old 06-28-2011, 12:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
pensive

feat. Otto Neurath
 
Ligeia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,085
Representing:
Default Valanciunas and Bargnani can work defensively together

NBA Playbook Jonas Valanciunas & Andrea Bargnani Can Work Defensively

Quote:
While doing my player comparisons for Basketball Prospectus, Kevin Pelton’s player similarity scores showed us that Valanciunas compared most closely to Tyson Chandler. Funny enough, the man who just coached Chandler and will be coaching Valanciunas in the future saw the same things,

.................................................. .................

While Raptor fans are probably rolling their eyes at me, because both Valanciunas and Bargnani have strengths and weaknesses right now defensively. Luckily for them, their strengths compliment each other well, and they should be able to hide each other’s weaknesses.

.................................................. ...................

Bargnani isn’t going to block a lot of shots, but he is able to go straight up and use his length to contest shots without fouling (fouled opponents on the block just 7.6% of the time) by going straight up.

Where Bargnani struggles on the defensive end is recognition and help defense, and this is what makes him a poor defensive center. You saw it this postseason, you want your center to be able to recognize things quickly on the defensive end, identifying when they should help and when they should stay home. Andrea Bargnani was awful at that, and with him as the last line of defense, it destroys everything the Raptors are trying to do on the defensive end.

Luckily for Bargnani and the Raptors, Jonas Valanciunas’ biggest strength right now is his help defense/being that last line of defense, blocking and bothering shots, but never really getting too far away from his man and being in position to defend him as well:


Many fans have pre-judged JV, certain (without having watched any games that he's played in) that he is another Bargnani. He is not.
Ligeia is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 12:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
Masai Ujiri

Senior Member
 
Kirby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,799
Representing:
Default

I'm just worried that the Raps may lose Ed Davis is Bargs is still here.
Kirby is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 12:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
...

Senior Member
 
powerfulpanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,487
Representing:
Default

1. we'll have to wait a year to see if this theory holds true or not
2. by that time i want ed davis to be our starter
powerfulpanda is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 12:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 4,879
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ligeia View Post
NBA Playbook Jonas Valanciunas & Andrea Bargnani Can Work Defensively

Many fans have pre-judged JV, certain (without having watched any games that he's played in) that he is another Bargnani. He is not.
There are a number of us that like the JV pick including myself. I believed that a JV/Bargs would be a nice frontcourt, I was just disappointed that we didn't get a pg as I believed the Raps needed more of a leader. However BC seems to have faith in Bayless and I'm certainly not one to judge as Bayless has not really been given the chance to hold the reigns for a full year. It's too bad we won't see JV till next year but maybe thats a good thing, allow him to get some weight and more PT.
DocHoliday99 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 12:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 4,879
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerfulpanda View Post
1. we'll have to wait a year to see if this theory holds true or not
2. by that time i want ed davis to be our starter
Honestly, I don't.
DocHoliday99 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 12:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
...

Senior Member
 
powerfulpanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,487
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
Honestly, I don't.
why? you think on a rebuilding team one of our brightest prospects doesn't deserve to start? especially after the rookie campaign he had
or do u think he's a career back up?
powerfulpanda is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 12:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 4,879
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerfulpanda View Post
why? you think on a rebuilding team one of our brightest prospects doesn't deserve to start? especially after the rookie campaign he had
or do u think he's a career back up?
no to the first and no to the second

Last edited by DocHoliday99; 06-28-2011 at 12:36 PM.
DocHoliday99 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 12:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
...

Senior Member
 
powerfulpanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,487
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
no to the first and no to the second
ok.....then can you actually give reasons? or can you only say yes and no?
powerfulpanda is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 12:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Crèpe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: RaptorLand
Posts: 545
Representing:
Default

Jonas as the last defensive line:


1:11 guess who's there ? lol

Edit: Ok, my bad i'm useless lol
Crèpe is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 12:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
Likes raw prospects with a great work ethic...

Senior Member
 
LKeet6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Liverpool (UK)
Posts: 2,001
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crèpe View Post
Jonas as the last defensive line:

YouTube - ‪Jonas Blocks‬‏

1:11 guess who's there ? lol

Edit: Ok, my bad i'm useless lol
say what you like about the competition he's facinbg but everyone says barg doesn't have the will, the determination, the effort for good D. Val clearly does. He's not another barg!

Davis and Val are the future. Scrappy, hard-working, shot-blocking. If they can each develop their offence (some small signs from Ed at back-end of season,) that is a front-court! and for years to come!
LKeet6 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 12:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
is waiting

Senior Member
 
Blaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,239
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
I'm just worried that the Raps may lose Ed Davis is Bargs is still here.
This is my biggest fear, that or he gets buried under bargnani.
Blaze is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 01:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Crèpe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: RaptorLand
Posts: 545
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LKeet6 View Post
say what you like about the competition he's facinbg but everyone says barg doesn't have the will, the determination, the effort for good D. Val clearly does. He's not another barg!

Davis and Val are the future. Scrappy, hard-working, shot-blocking. If they can each develop their offence (some small signs from Ed at back-end of season,) that is a front-court! and for years to come!
Euroligue is a great Level of competition. I'm french, I watch it often. I was talking about Roko Ukic at 1:11

I've got not problems with Valanciunas. I'll judge him when he'd be on the floor.
Crèpe is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 01:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,784
Representing:
Default

The only players that can work defensively with Bargnani are Defensive Player of the Years candidates like Dwight and Chandler. Asking a rookie like Jonas to mask the defensive short comings of Bargnani is too much.
RAPMAN is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 05:10 PM   #14 (permalink)
Likes raw prospects with a great work ethic...

Senior Member
 
LKeet6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Liverpool (UK)
Posts: 2,001
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crèpe View Post
Euroligue is a great Level of competition. I'm french, I watch it often. I was talking about Roko Ukic at 1:11

I've got not problems with Valanciunas. I'll judge him when he'd be on the floor.
No mate, i was agreeing with you! was expecting others to say that the level val is playing at does not prove anything. but my point was his effort will be effective at any level, like Ed.
LKeet6 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 05:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 4,879
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerfulpanda View Post
ok.....then can you actually give reasons? or can you only say yes and no?
You asked and I answered.

'you think on a rebuilding team one of our brightest prospects doesn't deserve to start?'
No, Davis should start if he's playing well.

'or do u think he's a career back up?'
No, at the present Davis is showing promise to be more than a back-up.

What else would you like? Bargs should start but to me should start at PF and Davis is showing potential to be a starter at PF. If both should start at PF then we have an impasse and an obvious debate.

However, I can see another year and attempt to have Bargs at the C with Amir as starting PF. If Davis continues to grow at the pace he's at he should replace Amir. Bargs and Davis can play together albeit with Davis in the post when on offense and obviously reversed on the defensive end. It will be interesting to see what Casey will do on the defensive end.

JV is a year away from coming here and most likely at least another year before starting. In 2012, I can see Bargs starting still at C with JV coming off the bench and Davis starting at PF with Amir coming off the bench.
DocHoliday99 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 05:55 PM   #16 (permalink)
...

Senior Member
 
powerfulpanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,487
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
You asked and I answered.

'you think on a rebuilding team one of our brightest prospects doesn't deserve to start?'
No, Davis should start if he's playing well.

'or do u think he's a career back up?'
No, at the present Davis is showing promise to be more than a back-up.
with regards to my orginal post - 2nd point, which was "by that time i want ed davis to be our starter"
you replied with "Honestly, i don't"
to which i asked why and gave two possible answers. you said no to both, without further explanation. so i ask why again cuz u haven't answered the question. then in ur last response u didn't address the real issue, which is, why you don't want davis to start

Last edited by powerfulpanda; 06-28-2011 at 06:06 PM.
powerfulpanda is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 06:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
bored.

Senior Member
 
iRaptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,032
Representing:
Default

Euros playing defense
iRaptor is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 06:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 222
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
I'm just worried that the Raps may lose Ed Davis is Bargs is still here.
I like Davis but I have a feeling he's going to leave TO the first chance he gets.
kishan13 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 06:03 PM   #19 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,686
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iRaptor View Post
Euros playing defense
it's a lot more common that iraptor making a quality post at rf.
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 06:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Membres supérieurs
 
DocHoliday99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 4,879
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerfulpanda View Post
with regards to my orginal post - 2nd point, which was "by that time i want ed davis to be our starter"
you replied with "Honestly, i don't"

your response doesn't answer why you don't WANT ed to start
because Bargs is by far the better offensive player and if you couple him in the future with Jonas their strengths compliment each other well. I do not believe Davis/Jonas compliment each well when compared to Bargs/Jonas. I also believe neither Davis or Jonas are ready to start in the NBA (of course, Davis is closer).

If there were to be a trade between Bargs or Davis I believe Davis will be the first one to go based on what I think above.
DocHoliday99 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24