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Ligeia 06-28-2011 11:00 AM

Valanciunas and Bargnani can work defensively together
 
NBA Playbook Jonas Valanciunas & Andrea Bargnani Can Work Defensively

Quote:

While doing my player comparisons for Basketball Prospectus, Kevin Pelton’s player similarity scores showed us that Valanciunas compared most closely to Tyson Chandler. Funny enough, the man who just coached Chandler and will be coaching Valanciunas in the future saw the same things,

.................................................. .................

While Raptor fans are probably rolling their eyes at me, because both Valanciunas and Bargnani have strengths and weaknesses right now defensively. Luckily for them, their strengths compliment each other well, and they should be able to hide each other’s weaknesses.

.................................................. ...................

Bargnani isn’t going to block a lot of shots, but he is able to go straight up and use his length to contest shots without fouling (fouled opponents on the block just 7.6% of the time) by going straight up.

Where Bargnani struggles on the defensive end is recognition and help defense, and this is what makes him a poor defensive center. You saw it this postseason, you want your center to be able to recognize things quickly on the defensive end, identifying when they should help and when they should stay home. Andrea Bargnani was awful at that, and with him as the last line of defense, it destroys everything the Raptors are trying to do on the defensive end.

Luckily for Bargnani and the Raptors, Jonas Valanciunas’ biggest strength right now is his help defense/being that last line of defense, blocking and bothering shots, but never really getting too far away from his man and being in position to defend him as well:


Many fans have pre-judged JV, certain (without having watched any games that he's played in) that he is another Bargnani. He is not.

Kirby 06-28-2011 11:17 AM

I'm just worried that the Raps may lose Ed Davis is Bargs is still here.

powerfulpanda 06-28-2011 11:17 AM

1. we'll have to wait a year to see if this theory holds true or not
2. by that time i want ed davis to be our starter

DocHoliday99 06-28-2011 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ligeia (Post 554613)
NBA Playbook Jonas Valanciunas & Andrea Bargnani Can Work Defensively

Many fans have pre-judged JV, certain (without having watched any games that he's played in) that he is another Bargnani. He is not.

There are a number of us that like the JV pick including myself. I believed that a JV/Bargs would be a nice frontcourt, I was just disappointed that we didn't get a pg as I believed the Raps needed more of a leader. However BC seems to have faith in Bayless and I'm certainly not one to judge as Bayless has not really been given the chance to hold the reigns for a full year. It's too bad we won't see JV till next year but maybe thats a good thing, allow him to get some weight and more PT.

DocHoliday99 06-28-2011 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerfulpanda (Post 554618)
1. we'll have to wait a year to see if this theory holds true or not
2. by that time i want ed davis to be our starter

Honestly, I don't.

powerfulpanda 06-28-2011 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 (Post 554621)
Honestly, I don't.

why? you think on a rebuilding team one of our brightest prospects doesn't deserve to start? especially after the rookie campaign he had
or do u think he's a career back up?

DocHoliday99 06-28-2011 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerfulpanda (Post 554622)
why? you think on a rebuilding team one of our brightest prospects doesn't deserve to start? especially after the rookie campaign he had
or do u think he's a career back up?

no to the first and no to the second

powerfulpanda 06-28-2011 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 (Post 554623)
no to the first and no to the second

ok.....then can you actually give reasons? or can you only say yes and no?

Crèpe 06-28-2011 11:52 AM

Jonas as the last defensive line:


1:11 guess who's there ? lol

Edit: Ok, my bad i'm useless lol

LKeet6 06-28-2011 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crèpe (Post 554630)
Jonas as the last defensive line:

YouTube - ‪Jonas Blocks‬‏

1:11 guess who's there ? lol

Edit: Ok, my bad i'm useless lol

say what you like about the competition he's facinbg but everyone says barg doesn't have the will, the determination, the effort for good D. Val clearly does. He's not another barg!

Davis and Val are the future. Scrappy, hard-working, shot-blocking. If they can each develop their offence (some small signs from Ed at back-end of season,) that is a front-court! and for years to come!

Blaze 06-28-2011 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirby (Post 554617)
I'm just worried that the Raps may lose Ed Davis is Bargs is still here.

This is my biggest fear, that or he gets buried under bargnani.

Crèpe 06-28-2011 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKeet6 (Post 554635)
say what you like about the competition he's facinbg but everyone says barg doesn't have the will, the determination, the effort for good D. Val clearly does. He's not another barg!

Davis and Val are the future. Scrappy, hard-working, shot-blocking. If they can each develop their offence (some small signs from Ed at back-end of season,) that is a front-court! and for years to come!

Euroligue is a great Level of competition. I'm french, I watch it often. I was talking about Roko Ukic at 1:11

I've got not problems with Valanciunas. I'll judge him when he'd be on the floor.

RAPMAN 06-28-2011 12:16 PM

The only players that can work defensively with Bargnani are Defensive Player of the Years candidates like Dwight and Chandler. Asking a rookie like Jonas to mask the defensive short comings of Bargnani is too much.

LKeet6 06-28-2011 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crèpe (Post 554642)
Euroligue is a great Level of competition. I'm french, I watch it often. I was talking about Roko Ukic at 1:11

I've got not problems with Valanciunas. I'll judge him when he'd be on the floor.

No mate, i was agreeing with you! was expecting others to say that the level val is playing at does not prove anything. but my point was his effort will be effective at any level, like Ed.

DocHoliday99 06-28-2011 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerfulpanda (Post 554625)
ok.....then can you actually give reasons? or can you only say yes and no?

You asked and I answered.

'you think on a rebuilding team one of our brightest prospects doesn't deserve to start?'
No, Davis should start if he's playing well.

'or do u think he's a career back up?'
No, at the present Davis is showing promise to be more than a back-up.

What else would you like? Bargs should start but to me should start at PF and Davis is showing potential to be a starter at PF. If both should start at PF then we have an impasse and an obvious debate.

However, I can see another year and attempt to have Bargs at the C with Amir as starting PF. If Davis continues to grow at the pace he's at he should replace Amir. Bargs and Davis can play together albeit with Davis in the post when on offense and obviously reversed on the defensive end. It will be interesting to see what Casey will do on the defensive end.

JV is a year away from coming here and most likely at least another year before starting. In 2012, I can see Bargs starting still at C with JV coming off the bench and Davis starting at PF with Amir coming off the bench.

powerfulpanda 06-28-2011 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 (Post 554926)
You asked and I answered.

'you think on a rebuilding team one of our brightest prospects doesn't deserve to start?'
No, Davis should start if he's playing well.

'or do u think he's a career back up?'
No, at the present Davis is showing promise to be more than a back-up.

with regards to my orginal post - 2nd point, which was "by that time i want ed davis to be our starter"
you replied with "Honestly, i don't"
to which i asked why and gave two possible answers. you said no to both, without further explanation. so i ask why again cuz u haven't answered the question. then in ur last response u didn't address the real issue, which is, why you don't want davis to start

iRaptor 06-28-2011 05:00 PM

Euros playing defense :haha:

kishan13 06-28-2011 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirby (Post 554617)
I'm just worried that the Raps may lose Ed Davis is Bargs is still here.

I like Davis but I have a feeling he's going to leave TO the first chance he gets.

'trane 06-28-2011 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iRaptor (Post 554932)
Euros playing defense :haha:

it's a lot more common that iraptor making a quality post at rf.

DocHoliday99 06-28-2011 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerfulpanda (Post 554930)
with regards to my orginal post - 2nd point, which was "by that time i want ed davis to be our starter"
you replied with "Honestly, i don't"

your response doesn't answer why you don't WANT ed to start

because Bargs is by far the better offensive player and if you couple him in the future with Jonas their strengths compliment each other well. I do not believe Davis/Jonas compliment each well when compared to Bargs/Jonas. I also believe neither Davis or Jonas are ready to start in the NBA (of course, Davis is closer).

If there were to be a trade between Bargs or Davis I believe Davis will be the first one to go based on what I think above.


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