UPDATE: Toronto - Jermaine O'Neal is a Raptor - Page 5
Old 06-23-2008, 05:54 PM   #81 (permalink)
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I LOVE Bargnani.

I think he can learn from two more years of 6th man workload.
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:56 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Jeffer....

Why do you keep saying he has a bad knee.

He hurt his knee.

Tried to play through is and had it fixed. He has rehabbed and is almost 100% with 6 months to go before tip off.

He's as good as ready to rock.
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:56 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Lol to be honest, i just like Bargs because hes italian, there wont be no player in the NBA thats from India anytime soon.
Another reason why i love
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Galli
So screw you haters, GO BARGS!
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:02 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Magette fills one void, that being scoring. O'Neal fills three. (scoring, rebounding & defense) Both are just as injury prone as the other. From a financial standpoint I could see your point, but from a talent perspective I unfortunately don't. Sorry

O'Neal Deal > Maggette Deal, in my opinion.
Well if you look at the stats, Maggette gives you more points (22) and roughly the same rebounds as O'neil has average the last 4 seasons (6-7).Top it off with his salary is more manageable and you probably keep Rasho as your Centre which as of yesterday everybody here seemed to like. That's what i prefer. O'neil would probably play 50 games next season and then who? Humphries? Bargnani? Can either of those two play 30+ minutes a game at the Centre position.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:05 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Jeffer....

Why do you keep saying he has a bad knee.

He hurt his knee.

Tried to play through is and had it fixed. He has rehabbed and is almost 100% with 6 months to go before tip off.

He's as good as ready to rock.
Because someone that weighs 260lbs and has a knee injury usually will have a bad knee(s) for the rest of their career.My opinion,until he plays a 70+ game season he has a knee problem and he's an expensive risk.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:11 PM   #86 (permalink)
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260 pound guys have big knee's


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Old 06-23-2008, 06:12 PM   #87 (permalink)
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So, to anyone saying let's not do this trade, how would we alleviate our issues at the Centre position? Anyone? Do we continue to go with an aged Rasho? Do we continue to struggle with Bargnani potentially?

I'm no fan of O'Neal, but the fact that someone is willing to even TAKE TJ right now, is surprising. Dude has an injury, that if he even falls the wrong way, he's done. No ands, ifs or buts. And here we are, complaining about a guy who MIGHT have knee problems, but we're not quite sure. Well, jeez, name me a big who doesn't have injury issues, no no no, check that, name me ANY player in the NBA who doesn't have injury concerns.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:24 PM   #88 (permalink)
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260 pound guys have big knee's


They better.Especially with on bad one!
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:29 PM   #89 (permalink)
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So, to anyone saying let's not do this trade, how would we alleviate our issues at the Centre position? Anyone? Do we continue to go with an aged Rasho? Do we continue to struggle with Bargnani potentially?

I'm no fan of O'Neal, but the fact that someone is willing to even TAKE TJ right now, is surprising. Dude has an injury, that if he even falls the wrong way, he's done. No ands, ifs or buts. And here we are, complaining about a guy who MIGHT have knee problems, but we're not quite sure. Well, jeez, name me a big who doesn't have injury issues, no no no, check that, name me ANY player in the NBA who doesn't have injury concerns.
Indianna and their Fans are saying that about O'neil.Wow somebody will take this guy with his injury problems + his salary?We'll take T.J and his "insured"contract for almost 1/3 the cost and take the draft pick as well oh and we'll take a veteran Centre with an expiring contract as well.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:34 PM   #90 (permalink)
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If JO could even just provide a quarter or the tough, rugged inside presence that AD and Oak used to I'd be all for this move.

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Old 06-23-2008, 06:41 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Indianna and their Fans are saying that about O'neil.Wow somebody will take this guy with his injury problems + his salary?We'll take T.J and his "insured"contract for almost 1/3 the cost and take the draft pick as well oh and we'll take a veteran Centre with an expiring contract as well.
Yes, they'll take an expring contract, but guess what, in 2010, we'll have O'Neal and his larger contract off the books. And how much cap space could we potentially have in 2010? What is that 2 years down the line? Has anyone looked at that free agent class?

Oh and how would you answer the Centre question? Again, everyone is a freaking risk in the NBA, no one is safe. Look at Yao. Great centre, but has injury concerns. Look at, hell, anyone. They've all had concerns. I'm looking at the potential here and having O'Neal and Bosh at the same time, is damn impressive and maybe Bargs might learn some postmoves from a guy who had made them an art form.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:50 PM   #92 (permalink)
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If you think too conservatively we'll be stuck in mediocrity forever. You can't expect that addressing one issue at a time will get you anywhere. A new team will revive O'Neil mentally and physically. I don't really see how this is a bad deal for us. Maggette and Diaw will get us nowhere and time and time again we see what wins Championships and we saw it again this year...defence.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:53 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Yes, they'll take an expring contract, but guess what, in 2010, we'll have O'Neal and his larger contract off the books. And how much cap space could we potentially have in 2010? What is that 2 years down the line? Has anyone looked at that free agent class?

Oh and how would you answer the Centre question? Again, everyone is a freaking risk in the NBA, no one is safe. Look at Yao. Great centre, but has injury concerns. Look at, hell, anyone. They've all had concerns. I'm looking at the potential here and having O'Neal and Bosh at the same time, is damn impressive and maybe Bargs might learn some postmoves from a guy who had made them an art form.
I still thik you can get your scorer (swing player) and not give two of your starters and a draft pick for a big man that is way overpaid and has a shit knee.Last i looked Rasho was not injury prone and can give you 7-8RPG without having to be presured to score much if we still add a second scorer such as Maggette!And Rasho's contract expires next summer. When we have money to spend.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:57 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Well if you look at the stats, Maggette gives you more points (22) and roughly the same rebounds as O'neil has average the last 4 seasons (6-7).Top it off with his salary is more manageable and you probably keep Rasho as your Centre which as of yesterday everybody here seemed to like. That's what i prefer. O'neil would probably play 50 games next season and then who? Humphries? Bargnani? Can either of those two play 30+ minutes a game at the Centre position.
Actually over the past four seasons Jermaine O'Neal averaged:

19.4PPG 8.8REB 2.3BLK 2.3AST



Question: If Rasho Nesterovic went down with an injury last season what would the Raptors have done?

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I still thik you can get your scorer (swing player) and not give two of your starters and a draft pick for a big man that is way overpaid and has a shit knee.Last i looked Rasho was not injury prone and can give you 7-8RPG without having to be presured to score much if we still add a second scorer such as Maggette!And Rasho's contract expires next summer. When we have money to spend.
Actually they'll probably be over the cap even with Rasho's contract off the books. If there is any room it won't be enough to bring anyone in of relevance.

Last edited by Apollo; 06-23-2008 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:58 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Lol to be honest, i just like Bargs because hes italian, there wont be no player in the NBA thats from India anytime soon.
Another reason why i love
Belli
&
Galli
So screw you haters, GO BARGS!
So, just to be clear...

Of all the legitimate reasons to not trade for JO (injuries, contract, etc) your opinion is that we shouldn't trade for him because it's going to lower the overall Italian floor time in the NBA next season?

Oh...well now it's all so obvious...I can't believe I ever though we should go after this guy. I totally forgot to think about the Italians!
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:05 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Silvester Stallone for Prime Minister! Uh...No.
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:06 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Actually over the past four seasons Jermaine O'Neal averaged:

19.4PPG 8.8REB 2.3BLK 2.3AST
Yes, thank you...was just about to write that.

Maggete brings exactly one thing. Above average scoring from the wing spot. That is IT. He's average at best in every other aspect of the game.

Scoring is always nice, and I will acknowledge more than anyone that Toronto could use a talented, athletic wing player who can create for himself.

That said, there are very few capable centres in the entire league. Most teams are either running out big stiffs (and I'm sorry, but Rasho still falls under this category, regardless of the fact he exceeded expectations last year) or non-centres.

The chance to add not just a capable centre, but an elite one, can't be passed up. Especially when his skill set addresses the Raptors primary needs. If you watched the Raptors get killed on the boards last year, I don't see how you can't support this move.

As for the injury, a great point was previously brought up. He tried to play through it, making it worse. If he reports to camp healthy, why not give him (and the Raptors medical staff, who, believe it or not, actually do this shit for a living, and have a MUCH better idea than you or I whether he's going to be capable of going for a full year) the benefit of the doubt?

I mean...would you hold off trading for Yao or Amare?

And the fact remains, of all you bashing this deal, theres no better realistic alternative. None of the rumoured deals have been this good, and I challenge any of you to even come up with a hypothetical deal that would be this good.
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:15 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Actually over the past four seasons Jermaine O'Neal averaged:

19.4PPG 8.8REB 2.3BLK 2.3AST



Question: If Rasho Nesterovic went down with an injury last season what would the Raptors have done?



Actually they'll probably be over the cap even with Rasho's contract off the books. If there is any room it won't be enough to bring anyone in of relevance.
Maggette is averaging 19.75PPG and 5.8 RPG and would cost alot less and allow more flexability going forward!

Raptors Salary structure for 09/10 (NEXT SUMMER) Only 30 million dollars commited.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:51 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Maggette opted out of his contract. He's going to be looking for a long term deal and he's going to be a lot more expensive than he was in his last deal.

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Raptors Salary structure for 09/10 (NEXT SUMMER) Only 30 million dollars commited.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm
Go back and take a second look at that. Bargnani's $6,527,490 team option isn't included. Neither is Joey Graham's $3,441,104 qualifying offer and neither is the $10M per season Jose is going to get. Neither is the contract of their first rounder this year or Roko Ukic who they plan to bring over or any free agent they sign this year up to $6M using the mid level exception. Let me take a conservative guess and say that you should add an extra $22M to that cap number.

Last year the league cap was $55.6M. Lets say that this increases to $57M by 09/10. Thats not much wiggle room when you're at $52M; which is a conservative estimation. After you factor in the 1st rounder for that off-season you only have enough for a decent role player.
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:00 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Maggette opted out of his contract. He's going to be looking for a long term deal and he's going to be a lot more expensive than he was in his last deal.



Go back and take a second look at that. Bargnani's $6,527,490 team option isn't included. Neither is Joey Graham's $3,441,104 qualifying offer and neither is the $10M per season Jose is going to get. Neither is the contract of their first rounder this year or Roko Ukic who they plan to bring over or any free agent they sign this year up to $6M using the mid level exception. Let me take a conservative guess and say that you should add an extra $22M to that cap number.

Last year the league cap was $55.6M. Lets say that this increases to $57M by 09/10. Thats not much wiggle room when you're at $52M; which is a conservative estimation. After you factor in the 1st rounder for that off-season you only have enough for a decent role player.

Yeah and T.J's contract (8.5 mil) and Graham's (4 million) are included.Take those off (Graham won't be back IMO),so with Bargnani's team option they are looking at 23 million dollars + re-signs.Without Bargnani's option it's 18 million.

Last edited by jeffb; 06-23-2008 at 08:03 PM.
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