UPDATE: Team Canada Released Dalembert (Sam Responds Pg.4) - Page 3
Old 07-16-2008, 02:34 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Adequate Swag View Post
Wow.

Twice now you have referred to my opinions as bullshit. I really don't appreciate that. Someone's opinions are their own personal beliefs, so to call them bullshit is unnecessary and harsh. I respect your opinions, and I try to extend that same courtesy to everyone, so it would be nice to be treated the same way (which I always have been up until this)
Swag ... don't take it personal. We refer to it just as "It's just SJ". He means nothing malicious by it. He's just a passionate fan. You'll get to know and understand him better over the next while. We've known him for years now.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:35 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Adequate Swag View Post
Wow.

Twice now you have referred to my opinions as bullshit. I really don't appreciate that. Someone's opinions are their own personal beliefs, so to call them bullshit is unnecessary and harsh. I respect your opinions, and I try to extend that same courtesy to everyone, so it would be nice to be treated the same way (which I always have been up until this)

Moving on...

I don't get sports because I consider winning to be the primary goal?
I'm not talking about fucking jayvee basketball here, we're talking about getting a country to the Olympics. You don't get there on goodwill and healthy competition. It takes wins.

No, I don't necessarily want our basketball team to become like the Americans, but thats not a reasonable concern. We don't have the talent. But either way...Canada's hockey program is no different than the USA's basketball program in terms of talent and national exposure, and I remain a strong supporter of Canadian hockey. So yeah, if it meant Olympic medals, I'd take it.

To be clear, I will say again...there certainly could have been legitimate reasons to boot him. But in my opinion, if Leo didn't do everything possible to keep this guy without totally submarining the team, then I think he was wrong. If it was a situation where he had no choice, and keeping him would have done legitimate damage to the squad, then fine, boot him.

But whatever...I get it...you prefer a team that's based on hard work, team play, and wanting to be there. That's fine.

I would prefer our team do whatever it takes to actually make the Olympics. If that means some behind the scenes fighting, so be it.

In an ideal situation we could have both, as some European teams do. But, unfortunately, this isn't an ideal situation.

Winning at a cost vs. "doing the right thing" is a classic conflict of opinion in sports. Somehow because I disagree with you I'm full of shit and don't understand sports?

yep.

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Old 07-16-2008, 02:41 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Nah I'll stand on this one Doc, if he doesn't like it too bad. Too often we allow the bar to be lowered on these boards.

I'll cave when it comes to basketball arguments on who should be traded, played, etc. But I think we should expect more from ourselves when it pertains to issues that require actual thought.

I will say this much, our debate is predicated upon speculation, so its difficult to be sure why Dalembert was let go, or who was to blame. My argument however has nothing to do with that, it has to do with the notion of stroking a persons ego in order to win in international or Olympic competition when that same person is representing his team and country poorly by ignoring the basic principles of Olympism.

Sorry man. There ain't no grey area there. Sometimes there are schools of thought that are perhaps a bit more responsible, and hold a great deal more efficay than some others. This is one of them.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:47 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LyRrAd_Nation View Post
That's like saying the guys who are chosen for Team Canada when it comes to hockey do so because of selfish, primadonna reasons and are just in it for the endorsements.

These guys do have some sort of national pride. Most of these grew up watching Jordan, Barkley, Bird, Ewing dominate on the intenational level. They would want to be included in that group.
Hockey is a slightly different story. It is Canada's Sport. And Canadians are different than Americans in tearms of National Pride-just not like that of the Eastern Hemisphere.

And I want it to be known that if Sammy D was acting like a Primma Donna then I whole HEartedly agree with Leo giving him the Boot.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:13 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dr. J. Naismith View Post
Swag ... don't take it personal. We refer to it just as "It's just SJ". He means nothing malicious by it. He's just a passionate fan. You'll get to know and understand him better over the next while. We've known him for years now.
OK, I'm going to do the same as SJ as sign off of this thread here after I say a couple things.

I've come to appreciate SJ very much already in my limited time on these boards. I get his style. He's intense, and he believes in his positions. I'm the same way. So believe me, this isn't a personal thing, because SJ is certainly someone whose opinions I have a lot of respect for. I think he's really knowledgeable and I think he generally has a great demeanor on here, getting his points across and being entertaining in the process. I like to think of myself as the same in a lot of ways, so clearly I take no issue with him.

HOWEVAH

If I were to go around calling every opinion I disagreed with bullshit, I'd wear out those letters on my keyboard. That plus saying that I don't understand sports was a statement that I found outrageously condescending. I get that our opinions differed on the matter, and I totally understand your side here (more on that in a minute, once I'm through with my whining baby bullshit ) but I don't take kindly to being talked down to in that fashion, regardless of who is doing the talking.

I think I've proved in my limited time here to be a valuable member of these boards, and I'd like to believe that my contributions are generally appreciated by most. I'd also like to think that I've certainly established myself to be knowledgeable enough that my understanding of sports shouldn't be called into question.

And as such, I'd hope that a simple disagreement of opinion could be discussed rationally, rather than with insults (twice) that I sure didn't feel were deserved.

OK...enough of my self indulgent whining...you guys don't care I'm sure. I'll try and keep the rest short.

I agree with you (SJ) about the Olympics in general. I think international sport is being bastardized to the point where it is hardly recognizable as the competition it was intended to be. In my opinion, NBA/NHL/whoever shouldn't even be playing. It's supposed to be amateur sport, and it should remain as such.

HOWEVAH (Im on my Stephen A today )

I was kind of taking that into account when making my argument. I think it's past the point where we can do anything about that, and I would rather see Canada try to compete than try to hold up the ideals of Olympic and international sport. I understand it's not pro sports, but the best teams all feature pro players, so to try and be competitive without adopting some of the ideals of pro sports is difficult.

Furthermore, I was misrepresenting this as a personal issue. Honestly, call me unpatriotic, but my interest in Canada Basketball is limited to checking box scores. But at the same time, I'm subjected to multiple newspaper and TV stories regarding the sad state of Canadian Basketball. We criticize the fact that our basketball team can't be competitive, yet we pat Leo on the back for making a move that clearly sets back the program from a performance perspective.

Believe me, I fully support the no player is bigger than the team theory. If I was a coach, that's something I would preach from day one. But, in certain situations, when a program is struggling and many (particularly in the media) are constantly raising questions about the teams lack of success, I would let a player who is ultimately of tremendous importance to
the team bend that rule a bit.

Is it bringing professional ideals into an environment where it doesn't belong? Absolutely. Is that environment already so compromised that one basketball team's actions can hardly make a difference? I would argue it is.

So in short...I agree with you from a personal and moral standpoint. I just don't understand how people can support a move like this and then turn around and act baffled that our basketball program is sub par. I'd love to see Canada Basketball make the Olympics, and I'd love to see them do it the right way. But I would rather see them make the Olympics the "wrong way" (which is the direction international sports are heading in general) than continue to struggle.

OK...that's it. Gold star for anyone that read that all the way through.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:17 PM   #46 (permalink)
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^^Yeah for me!!!!!
GOLD STAR!!!!



by the way-nice post man.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:19 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Tha was a bullshit post.

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Old 07-16-2008, 03:25 PM   #48 (permalink)
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LOL i wont lie...sometimes this forum makes my day!

stop fighting like chicks!

all i know is canadian basketball is gone even farther down the train then last month...and with dalembert being released its going to be a huge challenger to build canadian basketball...
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:28 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Dalembert aint that good.

PS. ya you know Jayjay, between the teo of us, Swag and I laid down some pretty decent posts. And it isn't an argument, it's a discussion. Perhaps thats the problem, too many of you young and obviously cranially challenged kids don't get that. Pay attention fella, you may learn a bit about a lil' bit.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:33 PM   #50 (permalink)
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umm easy there buddy.. first of all i wasnt implying only you to...was implying the whole thread and people discussing this as its a big deal....

Canadian basketball well never be par to international standards but what you need to look at is how thisone move can cause a challenge all together...Sam was the only light yet dim light on the team...now with him gone it just leaves team canada with a team that isnt even good enough for the summer leagues..and as a fan of basketball and a canadian that is disappointing...
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:38 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Message boards are here to argue and disagree with one another. Some conversations get heated, but without that you get a pretty boring forum.

Keep up the good work fellas and carry on.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:40 PM   #52 (permalink)
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"You're representing Canada here," said Rowan Barrett, who contributed one of the biggest shots of the game in today's victory. "This is not the NBA, this is not the NCAA, this is not the CIS ... this is FIBA basketball and the team dynamic is not the same."

Wonder what he did.

Sorry Jayjay, didn't mean to ruffle your pantaloons. :P
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:42 PM   #53 (permalink)
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lol it will take more then you to ruffle me pantaloons SJ...if iwas new to this forum id prolly take offence
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:45 PM   #54 (permalink)
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In al seriousness, how much better of a team would we be able to put on the floor?
I know that Nash could be ther but after that?
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:47 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JayJayW View Post
if iwas new to this forum id prolly take offence
Hehe...whoops

In regards to that quote from SJ...it sounds like Sammy may have thought his NBA status gave him a little more leeway in the locker room than it actually does.

Being the best player on the team doesn't give someone the right to say whatever they want, but many think it does. It's possible Sammy may have overstepped his boundaries here.
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:11 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Default Sammy's Agent Responds On His Behalf

Dalembert's agent responds:

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Originally Posted by Doug Smith
Dalembert's agent scoffed at the notion the 27-year-old lacked any commitment.

"I think Sammy's kind of proven he wants to be there," said Marc Cornstein, who prefaced his comments by the fact he hadn't spoken to Dalembert yet. "That's a ludicrous comment."

Cornstein said Dalembert had shown, by finally rushing through his citizenship process, playing in the qualification tournament last summer in Las Vegas and being one of the first players in camp this year (all characteristics lauded by Canada Basketball officials before yesterday), that he a complete understanding about the workings of the team.

"If anyone can come up with an agenda for why Sam would be there other than his commitment to the Canadian national team, I'd love to hear it."And the agent sounding a warning for future recruitment.

"Good luck ever getting another NBA player to show up again," said Cornstein.
Source - Click here
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:14 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Ya i wanna email his agent, that douchebag is already providing a glimpse of the attitude and mindset.

Good riddance.
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:35 PM   #58 (permalink)
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ouch. that last bit by the agent is quite the kick in the nuts!
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Old 07-16-2008, 05:17 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Yep. We're screwed
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Old 07-16-2008, 05:21 PM   #60 (permalink)
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ouch. that last bit by the agent is quite the kick in the nuts!
Yep - and that's what is such a sad reflection on the game and the olympics. Really - I just can't give a shit about the olympic games. What a farce from start to finish. At least that's what it looks like, and it's too bad for the few athletes here and the many athletes there that should be what it's all about, because they might as well be invisible.
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