UPDATE: Team Canada Released Dalembert (Sam Responds Pg.4) - Page 2
Old 07-16-2008, 12:05 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Soooo...lets say you're Mitch Kupchak last summer.

Kobe's gone...right?
Come'on Swag ... as if you just compared Kobe's situation to Dalembert's.

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You're welcome to support moves that you feel are morally right or whatever, just don't expect Canada to win any important basketball games in the forseeable future.
Meh, Dalembert wouldn't of made a significant difference. I rather lose with no names then Dalembert + no names.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:07 PM   #22 (permalink)
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swag... i don't really understand your position.

you shouldn't be so dismissive of our national team. It means a lot to a lot of people. Myself included. I bet you it meant a lot to Dalembert before this whole thing blew up.

Playing for your country and national pride are HUGE to me. IMO, people owe a lot to the countries that they are raised in and that give them a certain quality of life.

It's too bad that our national basketball team isn't very good, but to just dismiss it as such and say that Dalembert is waisting his time here is bullshit. This program NEEDS to improve. Bringing Dalemebert in was a huge step in the right direction. (You are right in thinking that Leo should have probably treated him differently to prevent something shitty like this from happening).

This whole situation sucks - but it IS a big deal.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:12 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I think it just shows how much of a dink Leo probably may or may not be in fact the same may or may not said about Sammy D
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:19 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Come'on Swag ... as if you just compared Kobe's situation to Dalembert's.
SJ said if anyone acts a fool or speaks out against the team then you cut him, it doesn't matter who it is. Kobe spoke out about his team...openly criticized management and other players to random dudes with a video camera. If anything that's worse, as it was in a public forum.

Did anyone in the world consider cutting Kobe? Nope.

And it's all been conveniently forgot because he came out and played great basketball.

Did Phil Jackson bench Kobe when he acted a fool on the court and wouldn't shoot for an entire half?

You appease your star players, especially when they mean a lot to your organization. Kobe is just an example.

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swag... i don't really understand your position.

you shouldn't be so dismissive of our national team. It means a lot to a lot of people. Myself included. I bet you it meant a lot to Dalembert before this whole thing blew up.

Playing for your country and national pride are HUGE to me. IMO, people owe a lot to the countries that they are raised in and that give them a certain quality of life.

It's too bad that our national basketball team isn't very good, but to just dismiss it as such and say that Dalembert is waisting his time here is bullshit. This program NEEDS to improve. Bringing Dalemebert in was a huge step in the right direction. (You are right in thinking that Leo should have probably treated him differently to prevent something shitty like this from happening).

This whole situation sucks - but it IS a big deal.
I'm not writing the national team off. My point is NBA guys have plenty of reasons not to play. This is giving them one more. Your last sentence in brackets there is exactly what I'm saying. Dalembert was huge for the program, got citizenship to play here (so clearly, it meant something to him) and yet Leo sends him packing less than 2 years later? In the middle of his first big tournament?

It's a step backwards, and future Canadian stars will view it as such.

As for national pride...if everyone's so proud of our national team, why does Nash get a free pass? Because he's had NBA success. He's infinitely more popular than any other national team player in history because he's got two MVP awards.

NBA success does more for national pride than the Canadian team can hope to do at this point.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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As for national pride...if everyone's so proud of our national team, why does Nash get a free pass? Because he's had NBA success. He's infinitely more popular than any other national team player in history because he's got two MVP awards.
well as we all know Nash has represented Canada and the past (and did so very well). That's one thing that he has going for him and one reason for the pass. That and his age.

Like i agree with you that this whole Leo / Sam thing is just plain bad for Basketball canada any way you slice it. As a supporter, i'm just pissed off by it.
and yeah.. you pretty much were writing the team off earlier.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:33 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Beggars can't be choosers.

Maybe it's a Leo hater in me who posts this, but I'd fire Rautins 100 times over before getting rid of the only real NBA player who was committed to play for the national team. They are in deep shit without Dalembert, that's for sure.

Within the national team program, unlike in pro sports, the head coach becomes a lot like an NCAA coach - a recruiter. That's when the coach's personality is sometimes more important than his style or Xs and Os. Triano, from all the accounts I've read and heard, was an excellent diplomat who knew how to get guys to commit to the program. I still don't understand exactly why he was let go and what makes Rautins a better coach for that program, but this episode can't be good for the national team no matter which way they try to spin it.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:37 PM   #27 (permalink)
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um i dont get it,...
didnt dalembert play through a fractured foot for team canada last year?
it was a secret, he didnt want anyone to know cause he wanted to play...
now this?
i'm confused.

i'm guessing Leo is even more of a jackass than i thought.
truthfully, i would have a problem listening to that hack tell me what to do too.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:38 PM   #28 (permalink)
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well as we all know Nash has represented Canada and the past (and did so very well). That's one thing that he has going for him and one reason for the pass. That and his age.

Like i agree with you that this whole Leo / Sam thing is just plain bad for Basketball canada any way you slice it. As a supporter, i'm just pissed off by it.
and yeah.. you pretty much were writing the team off earlier.
I was writing this particular team off, yes. But I had basically written them off before the tournament anyway. I am not writing Basketball Canada off, but this is certainly a big setback to the program as a whole.

And Nash had quit playing for Canada when he won his MVP's and his popularity, and the "national pride" in him has skyrocketed since then. I'm not saying he doesnt deserve (and receive) praise for his time with the national team, I'm simply saying Dalembert could do more for the national pride in basketball by turning himself into a top flight NBA player than he could doing anything with this national team.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:40 PM   #29 (permalink)
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No player is greater than the team.

Kobe was brought up. Guess what, they were looking to trade him but no suitable offers arose. If I were coach, yes I would bench him because again you win and lose as a team.

If any player believes he is above the team and their coach for that matter than they're better off without him because that's not simply an attitude that is shown in the locker room for instance but on the court as well. No player wants to play with a guy like that and hell neither would I.

And keeping your principles are greater than actually winning and in this case, if Sammy did believe he was greater than the team on whole, then good riddance. Give me a guy who'll actually live, eat, breathe, Canadian basketball.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:53 PM   #30 (permalink)
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And keeping your principles are greater than actually winning and in this case, if Sammy did believe he was greater than the team on whole, then good riddance. Give me a guy who'll actually live, eat, breathe, Canadian basketball.
See if that's your opinion then that's fine. As long as you acknowledge you are sacrificing winning to do that. And not just now, but long term.

It's not like I prefer players who try and put themselves above the team (and to be clear, theres no indication thus far as to exactly what Sammy did here) There are absolutely instances in which cutting him is justifiable.

My issue is that everyone is going to be patting Leo on the back for making the moral, upstanding move here (again, until we get specifics we really don't know. Leo could be totally in the wrong) and then in two years we'll be getting an influx of "why won't NBA players play for Canada?" and "Where's the talent on our national team" type stories.

And the bottom line is you're not going to get an NBA guy who eats sleeps and breathes Canadian basketball. So what would we rather have? A scrappy team of scrubs who are hard workers and phenomenal teammates but aren't good enough ball players to get the team anywhere (as has been the case since Nash left) or that same group plus a few NBA guys who, while perhaps not as committed to Basketball Canada, have the abilities to help us win some games (as Nash did)

I'll take W's for Canada over a losing team that does and says all the right things off the court.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:58 PM   #31 (permalink)
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What a brutal thread.

This isn't fucking Pro basketball.

This is a National Program, it's a fucking priveldge to be invited, not a right, and the best don't necessarily have to be there. You are there to represent your Country, and to be the face of a nation in competition internationally to promote both healthy competition, and goodwill towards the other nations competing.

Can you not see the simple difference?
Do you want Basketball Canada, which is part of our National Team System, and the olympic team, to become like the US?

Do you prefer some bullshit $$$$ grabbing Media circus, over an age old tradition of honest and healthy athletics?

Those ideal make me sick to my stomach, honestly. I may never have had the tools to perform at that level in any sport, but I'd give my right nut to be able to even sniff that type of honour, and I sure as shit wouldn't want to have it soured by some fucking guy bringing his bullshit Prosports swagger and ego into the international or olympic forum.

You have every fucking year to beat your chest, sell gatorade and make a paycheque, you get one chance every 4 years to leave that shit at the door and just compete.

IF Leo told this guy to sit after he pulled some prima donna cry baby act becuse he didn't like being critiqued, then I support Leo 100%. I have been a coach, and I'd take 11 guys respecting themsleves, and the team any day over a team of 12 that have one guy who puts himself above the rest.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:59 PM   #32 (permalink)
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See if that's your opinion then that's fine. As long as you acknowledge you are sacrificing winning to do that. And not just now, but long term.

It's not like I prefer players who try and put themselves above the team (and to be clear, theres no indication thus far as to exactly what Sammy did here) There are absolutely instances in which cutting him is justifiable.

My issue is that everyone is going to be patting Leo on the back for making the moral, upstanding move here (again, until we get specifics we really don't know. Leo could be totally in the wrong) and then in two years we'll be getting an influx of "why won't NBA players play for Canada?" and "Where's the talent on our national team" type stories.

And the bottom line is you're not going to get an NBA guy who eats sleeps and breathes Canadian basketball. So what would we rather have? A scrappy team of scrubs who are hard workers and phenomenal teammates but aren't good enough ball players to get the team anywhere (as has been the case since Nash left) or that same group plus a few NBA guys who, while perhaps not as committed to Basketball Canada, have the abilities to help us win some games (as Nash did)

I'll take W's for Canada over a losing team that does and says all the right things off the court.

What a bullshit opinion.

Sorry bud, but you just don't get Sports then.
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:05 PM   #33 (permalink)
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What a bullshit opinion.

Sorry bud, but you just don't get Sports then.
I agree with Swag easily...

In North America at least the Olympics is another way to brand yourself as a player and score more endorsement deals. Do you honestly think that Kobe/BronBron etc actually care about "Team USA"?

Im not saying that it is right or wrong but in North America sport is about money first-National pride is a distant second.
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:10 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I think those dudes actually do care about Team USA. Over the years, the rest of the world has caught up to the so called USA powerhouse. These guys are playing for the chance to re-store the glory. If they didn't care, they wouldn't have committed to the 3 year program.
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:13 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Again thats 3 years of "Team USA" endorsements.

Dont think for one second that if Kobe decided he didn't want to play because that plan would go to shit if he decided against it.

Now Bosh, Wade, Miller mabey Paul and Kidd probably havve some pride in just being there but none of those guys are prima donnas either.
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:13 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Hey Listen.

i'M not calling you guys out, and I don't mean to call th eopinion Bullshit.

However, the national team is there to compete internationally, the paramount goal is to compete in the olympic games.

I understad all about the commercialism involved at the olympic level, as well as the political motives that have been involved for centuries. I'm old enough to have been around the block a few times.

Unfortunately that doesn't mean we should promote or support that type of thing. If as individuals we cannot seek to conduct ourselves, with basic human decency, respect and honour, how then can we expect represent our fellow citizens on a global stage with that same set of moral values. Do we not seek to uphold these values for our friends, families, and for our country?

You may think I am being mellow dramatic, but I implore you to think a little harder, and look a little deeper. 36 years on this rock and a great deal of athletic and personal experience have taught me a few basic principals. Principles I refuse to abandon simply because there are powerful and corroding commercial ideals set in place to oppose them.

As I said before, there is a time and place for Professional Sports and a catering to the Win at all cost mentality that the general public has fallen victim too over the years. This, this national stage, this international stage, is not that time.

I'll end my argument on this, an dthus end my participation in this thread by offering the first two Fundamental principles of Olympism, and set forth by the IOC in 2007. I hope you will see the value in adhereing to this, even if it does mean you might not win, if you cannot, you may need to readjust your priorities in life to place cahracter, respect, and humanity someplace immediately in front of self gratification or promotion for a fleeting moment in time.

Fundamental Principles of Olympism

1. Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the qualities of body, will and mind. Blending sport with culture and education, Olympism seeks to create a way of life based on the joy of effort, the educational value of good example and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles.


2. The goal of Olympism is to place sport at the service of the harmonious development of man, with a view to promoting a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity.

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Old 07-16-2008, 01:15 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I can see Swag's point, but it is a sad reflection on things, as was Kobe's display of stupidity, and many other examples.

On a side note - or maybe it should be front and center - I would say that Sammy D got Nesterobitched and should have been singled out in that regard. To me he is another guy that is a little bit over-rated, and will be joining another sort of player like that in Elton Brand. Together they might rise above their over-ratedness, and show that the sum is greater than the parts, but there's a lot of money they have down in Philly banking on that happening.
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:22 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Again thats 3 years of "Team USA" endorsements.

Dont think for one second that if Kobe decided he didn't want to play because that plan would go to shit if he decided against it.

Now Bosh, Wade, Miller mabey Paul and Kidd probably havve some pride in just being there but none of those guys are prima donnas either.

That's like saying the guys who are chosen for Team Canada when it comes to hockey do so because of selfish, primadonna reasons and are just in it for the endorsements.

These guys do have some sort of national pride. Most of these grew up watching Jordan, Barkley, Bird, Ewing dominate on the intenational level. They would want to be included in that group.
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:25 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Okay well we dont know the exact circumstances as to why he was released yet... but at this point still...

Samuel Dalembert is the face of Basketball Canada...

not the other bunch of scrubs on the team... Leo better have a good fucking reason..
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:27 PM   #40 (permalink)
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What a bullshit opinion.

Sorry bud, but you just don't get Sports then.
Wow.

Twice now you have referred to my opinions as bullshit. I really don't appreciate that. Someone's opinions are their own personal beliefs, so to call them bullshit is unnecessary and harsh. I respect your opinions, and I try to extend that same courtesy to everyone, so it would be nice to be treated the same way (which I always have been up until this)

Moving on...

I don't get sports because I consider winning to be the primary goal?
I'm not talking about fucking jayvee basketball here, we're talking about getting a country to the Olympics. You don't get there on goodwill and healthy competition. It takes wins.

No, I don't necessarily want our basketball team to become like the Americans, but thats not a reasonable concern. We don't have the talent. But either way...Canada's hockey program is no different than the USA's basketball program in terms of talent and national exposure, and I remain a strong supporter of Canadian hockey. So yeah, if it meant Olympic medals, I'd take it.

To be clear, I will say again...there certainly could have been legitimate reasons to boot him. But in my opinion, if Leo didn't do everything possible to keep this guy without totally submarining the team, then I think he was wrong. If it was a situation where he had no choice, and keeping him would have done legitimate damage to the squad, then fine, boot him.

But whatever...I get it...you prefer a team that's based on hard work, team play, and wanting to be there. That's fine.

I would prefer our team do whatever it takes to actually make the Olympics. If that means some behind the scenes fighting, so be it.

In an ideal situation we could have both, as some European teams do. But, unfortunately, this isn't an ideal situation.

Winning at a cost vs. "doing the right thing" is a classic conflict of opinion in sports. Somehow because I disagree with you I'm full of shit and don't understand sports?

Last edited by Adequate Swag; 07-16-2008 at 01:29 PM.
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