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-   -   Ulmer: "OíNealís fate is tied to Bargnaniís" (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/ulmer-o-neal-s-fate-tied-bargnani-s-5746.html)

Dr. J. Naismith 01-15-2009 10:53 AM

Ulmer: "OíNealís fate is tied to Bargnaniís"
 
:reporter:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Ulmer
If the season ended today, the blossoming of Andrea Bargnani would be the seminal event of the campaign.

Since his return to the starterís role, he has averaged over 21 points but that only tells part of the story.

Jermaine OíNeal is a Raptor and will be for a foreseeable future but OíNealís fate is tied Bargnaniís. OíNeal is here because Bargnaniís ascendancy had slipped from a certainty to a possibility. The clock is always ticking when you have a franchise player like Chris Bosh and so the move was made to bring in OíNeal to supplement the Raptorís franchise player.

Jermaine OíNeal is what he is, a valuable player who can get you six to eight rebounds and 12 to 16 points a night. Despite his protestations, he is a player with a history of knee injuries with the latest one keeping him out of the lineup for nine games. At 23, Bargnani offers an infinitely more promising future. If his progress continues at the current pace of a headlong gallop, he is a hybrid player, a jump shooting, defensively sound seven-footer with a spectacular view of the floor, a killer first step and a serviceable low post game. In short, he could be a pillar, not a piece. Notice the word could.

What that does, of course, is change the direction of the franchise and the roster.

Source - Click here

Snooch 01-15-2009 10:59 AM

Ulmer is a goof.

It changes nothing.

JO was traded for for 3 reasons.

1) Financiallly it sets us up in 2010
2) he brings muscke to the front court and was supposed to shore up last years biggest weakness
3) Mentor Bargs into being a better defender/rebounder by going against him in practice all year.

Bargs playing well now does nothing to change the direction of the franchise. It is going where BC figured it would.

Now JO can be moved to sure up te wings.

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 01-15-2009 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snooch (Post 120027)
Ulmer is a goof.

It changes nothing.

JO was traded for for 3 reasons.

1) Financiallly it sets us up in 2010
2) he brings muscke to the front court and was supposed to shore up last years biggest weakness
3) Mentor Bargs into being a better defender/rebounder by going against him in practice all year.

Bargs playing well now does nothing to change the direction of the franchise. It is going where BC figured it would.

Now JO can be moved to sure up te wings.


The point(and I'm sure you caught it) is that no one really thought Bargnani was going to be a 20/6 guy consistantly this year.(and i admit 9 games is not enough to apoint him one). In short the consensus was that Bargnani might not 'get it' this year but hopefully he'd get better and Oneal was insurance that we could still be competitive in the meantime.

Now there is a quandry. Do you potentially mess up AB's mojo and move him back to the bench or to the 3 spot again... or have a potentially bad situation asking JO to come off the bench..either way it's reduced minutes for bargnani and is any one confident that his head will survive that kind of demotion?

Snooch 01-15-2009 11:20 AM

Look at the numbers, Bargs has played the last nine games and has put together a longer streak of good games than Oneal this season, Start has to go to Bargs, with JO backing both PF/C

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 01-15-2009 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snooch (Post 120036)
Look at the numbers, Bargs has played the last nine games and has put together a longer streak of good games than Oneal this season, Start has to go to Bargs, with JO backing both PF/C

I dont' disagree... but history has shown that former all stars/starters in general are reluctant to come off the bench :) I hope we dont' have that problem this time.

Snooch 01-15-2009 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! (Post 120038)
I dont' disagree... but history has shown that former all stars/starters in general are reluctant to come off the bench :) I hope we dont' have that problem this time.

me too.

Rory C 01-15-2009 11:53 AM

Screw JO.

I don't mind the guy, but Bargnani's development is far more important to this team's future.

INSIDER 01-15-2009 11:57 AM

Barg's is playing the best basketball of his career.
we cannot put him back to the bench just to appease JO and stroke his ego.
no way!

takman_777 01-15-2009 11:59 AM

JO is done! i suspect he will get hurt again the first game back as he trips on the thingy they clean their sneakers off with rather than come off the bench!

does any one know why we see Jose all the time on the bench or the tunnel, but never JO?? what a shithead.. really committed to this team eh!!

Snooch 01-15-2009 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takman_777 (Post 120051)
JO is done! i suspect he will get hurt again the first game back as he trips on the thingy they clean their sneakers off with rather than come off the bench!

does any one know why we see Jose all the time on the bench or the tunnel, but never JO?? what a shithead.. really committed to this team eh!!

Secret workouts with other teams.......

takman_777 01-15-2009 12:08 PM

secret workouts with other teams cheerleaders :D

Claudius 01-15-2009 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takman_777 (Post 120051)
JO is done! i suspect he will get hurt again the first game back as he trips on the thingy they clean their sneakers off with rather than come off the bench!

does any one know why we see Jose all the time on the bench or the tunnel, but never JO?? what a shithead.. really committed to this team eh!!

Really? Done? You really hoenstly think that? Mind qualifying that statement. I'm not a huge JO fan, but he's far from being done really. He's in the wrong situation.

And really, who cares if he's there or not. Everytime he's played for us, he's given 100% and that's all I care about. I don't care if they're a cheer leader or not. When he's on there he's giving all out effort. Sounds like a real "shithead" to me.

fancylad 01-15-2009 12:22 PM

Seriously Takman, I don't really get why your hate on for Oneal is this big. Sure the trade hasn't made us contenders, and he's been out for some time, but really now Jermaine hasn't done anything wrong to the team. In fact he's played really well for a good number of games. It's not like he's sulked or badmouthed the team, the city, or his "role."

From not cheering on the bench, to mocking how he wears a suit, i find your criticisms a little out of left field.

takman_777 01-15-2009 12:26 PM

i am not questioning his work, but since his injury, where has he been? jose is always around and with the team? that speaks more to me than his play on the court. i suspect he will be moved very shortly as everyone keeps telling me how valuable his contract is. i just think he is done here as he won't be happy backing up bosh or bargs... as i have said, this league has very few men who will sit and be happy for the team when they are not playing and are "stars" in this league. JO WAS a star in this league and his salary reflects the status he once held. he no longer commands the respect or has the game he had and we are now stuck with an expiring contract that can't play the game he was brought here to play... i don't think his knee will take much more so if you are content waiting until his contract expires on the dream that toronto has any hope in hell of landing a huge FA next season, then enjoy it my friend as the team will not get any better until we deal with our lack of players at the 2 and 3 spot. Trade him to someone else who believes he has value, we have little hope of keeping bosh let alone drawing wade here... as i see it.. bosh won't stay as this organization is not truly able to put a winning team together. chances are very good we won't win 30 games let alone 35 which is not an improvement from last year as i see it, but maybe losing so many games we are winning makes it okay... sigh...

fancylad 01-15-2009 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takman_777 (Post 120074)
just think he is done here as he won't be happy backing up bosh or bargs... as i have said, this league has very few men who will sit and be happy for the team when they are not playing and are "stars" in this league. JO WAS a star in this league and his salary reflects the status he once held. he no longer commands the respect or has the game he had and we are now stuck with an expiring contract that can't play the game he was brought here to play...

ahhh... you are simply assuming that Oneal won't be graceful in going to the bench. That's a hell of an assumption. You may be right... but really why hate a guy for something he hasn't done yet?

takman_777 01-15-2009 12:32 PM

fancylad
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fancylad (Post 120067)
Seriously Takman, I don't really get why your hate on for Oneal is this big. Sure the trade hasn't made us contenders, and he's been out for some time, but really now Jermaine hasn't done anything wrong to the team. In fact he's played really well for a good number of games. It's not like he's sulked or badmouthed the team, the city, or his "role."

From not cheering on the bench, to mocking how he wears a suit, i find your criticisms a little out of left field.

personally, i just wanted the jose haters to understand how stupid they sound, i love JO when he gets his body inside and grabs boards, i hope he can still do that, but he really should be with the team... when i coached, you were there whether you were playing or not and you dressed with a lot more class than a suit and knee length t!! geesh that looks so playground.. NO coach in an ncaa d1 program would let their kids take a picture like that, i am not sure where he was in that pic, but man it reflects bad on his team and the guys paying his salary... if he comes off the bench and says nothing, then he will have my vote, now how do we make this team better? when do we make a trade? this season is fading very quickly and every team in the league knows that we will give back any lead if they make a stop or two then score quickly... that has to stop... but how?

Snooch 01-15-2009 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takman_777 (Post 120083)
personally, i just wanted the jose haters to understand how stupid they sound, i love JO when he gets his body inside and grabs boards, i hope he can still do that, but he really should be with the team... when i coached, you were there whether you were playing or not and you dressed with a lot more class than a suit and knee length t!! geesh that looks so playground.. NO coach in an ncaa d1 program would let their kids take a picture like that, i am not sure where he was in that pic, but man it reflects bad on his team and the guys paying his salary... if he comes off the bench and says nothing, then he will have my vote, now how do we make this team better? when do we make a trade? this season is fading very quickly and every team in the league knows that we will give back any lead if they make a stop or two then score quickly... that has to stop... but how?

Who cares how he is dressed, must I pull pics of some other "styles" of NBA guys?

And how do you know that the reason he is on the bench isnt a direct result of orders from team management/ trainers?

I usually on board with you Talkman, but you arguement here is weak.

takman_777 01-15-2009 12:47 PM

thanks snoooch
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snooch (Post 120085)
Who cares how he is dressed, must I pull pics of some other "styles" of NBA guys?

And how do you know that the reason he is on the bench isnt a direct result of orders from team management/ trainers?

I usually on board with you Talkman, but you arguement here is weak.

i appreciate hearing that, and i just felt like being a bit snarky with JO today... this team is one starter and one solid bench guy short.. if we could get JO off the bench and SOMEONE to step up like JM or anyone who won't let the Bulls score 34 points in the 4th or make an attempt at playing perimeter d in the 4th... maybe i would not be so frustrated with these guys. Jay has them doing a lot of good things, but they just go brain dead at times and that is sad...

Snooch 01-15-2009 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takman_777 (Post 120089)
i appreciate hearing that, and i just felt like being a bit snarky with JO today... this team is one starter and one solid bench guy short.. if we could get JO off the bench and SOMEONE to step up like JM or anyone who won't let the Bulls score 34 points in the 4th or make an attempt at playing perimeter d in the 4th... maybe i would not be so frustrated with these guys. Jay has them doing a lot of good things, but they just go brain dead at times and that is sad...

I agree, the best way to get those parts is to trade JO, in my opinion anyways....

takman_777 01-15-2009 12:55 PM

you will get no argument from me, he is the only piece we should get rid of from the top 5 guys...i am going to start a thread...


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