Two high usage wings are struggling to play together - Page 3
Old 11-21-2013, 03:05 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Are you implying Demar is our new Barbosa?
If he truly played no defense and truly was a black hole with nothing to offer besides scoring, then he would be that guy, and should probably come off the bench. But he's not that guy. He's already gone well beyond that award winning veteran's ceiling. DeMar is a basketball player, who has improved continuously, in all aspects, to which you insist to be willfully blind to. Take a look at his rebounding from game to game. Really not too bad.
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Old 11-21-2013, 03:11 PM   #42 (permalink)
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And I would be all for Starting Anyone but DD and I think it makes sense. He played a ton of minutes last night but I like when he stays out with the bench and I really did like him and Ross together for small stretches.
There are 29 opposing coaches and and 400+ opposing players who also like that strategy. I havn't seen to0 many fans suggest that 1 of the 2 undisputed best players on their team should come off the bench. I think even you need to recognize that is a very bold position to take, courageous even.

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Old 11-21-2013, 03:12 PM   #43 (permalink)
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If he truly played no defense and truly was a black hole with nothing to offer besides scoring, then he would be that guy, and should probably come off the bench. But he's not that guy. He's already gone well beyond that award winning veteran's ceiling. DeMar is a basketball player, who has improved continuously, in all aspects, to which you insist to be willfully blind to. Take a look at his rebounding from game to game. Really not too bad.
Actually, you're making excuses for him saying he's getting steals that he isn't getting, he's making passes that aren't being converted.... welcome to real life. Talk about looking the other way.

I'm watching way more basketball around the league than I ever have and it's just readily apparent that our wings are incredibly lazy with their overall games. It's not just Demar, it's Rudy too. Bask in his glory all you want, I'm not calling you or anyone else out about it. I'm not sure why there is such a negative tone on this site between fellow members. Where is the love? Where is the sense of community?
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Old 11-21-2013, 03:33 PM   #44 (permalink)
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You need to bring you A game Carp, that is all. Your posts are one dimensional like a Demar Derozan boxscore. You're the Demar of Raptorsforum.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:25 PM   #45 (permalink)
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You need to bring you A game Carp, that is all. Your posts are one dimensional like a Demar Derozan boxscore. You're the Demar of Raptorsforum.
Then I should be showered with bullshit compliments and caked with excuses for why it's unnecessary to add to my repertoire!

For the record, I'm only checking box scores after I watch this train wreck. My disgust leads me to endless ranting.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:27 PM   #46 (permalink)
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There are 29 opposing coaches and and 400+ opposing players who also like that strategy. I havn't seen to0 many fans suggest that 1 of the 2 undisputed best players on their team should come off the bench. I think even you need to recognize that is a very bold position to take, courageous even.
+1. Demar is a starting-calibre wing player in the NBA. Having one of your top players come from the bench ala Ginobili or James Harden from OKC, you need players like Duncan and Parker in SA, or Westbrook and Durant who can shoulder the offensive scoring in the starting line-up. Its a luxury the Raps don't have.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:46 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Then I should be showered with bullshit compliments
Well you have received more than your fair share of those for reasons beyond my comprehension.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:54 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Well you have received more than your fair share of those for reasons beyond my comprehension.
Astounding the number of posters that are in agreement with him.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:10 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Well you have received more than your fair share of those for reasons beyond my comprehension.
haha... no doubt.
and thank you, you're too kind!

As for Demar, I've given him credit for scoring, does that not count for anything? I'm clearly in favour of blowing it up, and I just don't see the value in having a 10M Barbosa with slightly better.... ummm... other stats? I'd sell high and look to load up on multiple first round picks... of any year.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:27 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Disgusted by a trainwreck? Baffling. Blow up the trainwreck and you will be consoled? Yeah - that works. Selling high is fine, if it fits a plan. That would not mean getting nothing but picks of any year, obviously. Unless you are big on trainwrecks humping trainwrecks. This team is looking for growth right now, and finding some, including with DeMar. That means something, and it's not Kaboom.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:42 PM   #51 (permalink)
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everybody has passes that don't get coverted. How many assists does he average? How many rebounds? Truth is, he's becoming a really good scorer most of the time.... that is all. I'm starting to think that's okay, but it's far from ideal. He needs to pick up the D still.
lately his D has picked up imo. The problem is he was so bad compared to his athletic abilities that there's still huge room for improvement. With his size and length, he should be averaging 1.5spg and 1bpg without too much effort. His 0.3 bpg are pathetic to be honest.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:44 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Disgusted by a trainwreck? Baffling. Blow up the trainwreck and you will be consoled? Yeah - that works. Selling high is fine, if it fits a plan. That would not mean getting nothing but picks of any year, obviously. Unless you are big on trainwrecks humping trainwrecks. This team is looking for growth right now, and finding some, including with DeMar. That means something, and it's not Kaboom.
You don't know that, we can talk all we want and say the way ''I'' think we should do is the right way to build the team, because of whatever reasons. But none of us know what is the right way, we can only guess.
I'm sure though, if the right deal comes along Masai is going to blow it up.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:47 PM   #53 (permalink)
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And when you're shooting that well and driving so easy, there is little reason for him to pass TBH. Maybe Casey should be noting who the better defender is on the opposition out of the SG and SF and put a leash on one of them accordingly.
yeah, well it's not like he's getting tons of assists when he has bad shooting nights. Throughout his career his apg were below average, although to be fair, it's hard to get assists as a guard if you don't have a good handle.

Demar entered the league as a very, very raw player and he's progressed immensely. That's a thing I always liked about him, every year he improved something, mid range first, then his ball handling, then his post game and now his long distance shooting. Given his age and past history, there are good grounds to have faith in him to keep improving. And, as he gets older, his defense should improve by default, just by having more experience.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:59 PM   #54 (permalink)
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yeah, well it's not like he's getting tons of assists when he has bad shooting nights. Throughout his career his apg were below average, although to be fair, it's hard to get assists as a guard if you don't have a good handle.

Demar entered the league as a very, very raw player and he's progressed immensely. That's a thing I always liked about him, every year he improved something, mid range first, then his ball handling, then his post game and now his long distance shooting. Given his age and past history, there are good grounds to have faith in him to keep improving. And, as he gets older, his defense should improve by default, just by having more experience.
What needs to grow is his BBIQ.
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:21 PM   #55 (permalink)
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You don't know that, we can talk all we want and say the way ''I'' think we should do is the right way to build the team, because of whatever reasons. But none of us know what is the right way, we can only guess.
I'm sure though, if the right deal comes along Masai is going to blow it up.
Not by accepting pennies on the dollar. He has said he is looking for max value. It would be perfectly acceptable to get a useful player and a high pick next season, and still lose this season for our own pick's sake. I get that possibility. But just getting shit back for a player or players that could be very strong pieces going forward? That makes zero sense for a team that has hinted at big things within two years.

Carp was not talking about the right deal coming along. He was just taking potshots and being ridiculous. We might as well talk about trading Jonas for Schumpert if we can't give Masai enough credit to have a reasonable definition of "blowing it up".
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:31 PM   #56 (permalink)
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lately his D has picked up imo. The problem is he was so bad compared to his athletic abilities that there's still huge room for improvement. With his size and length, he should be averaging 1.5spg and 1bpg without too much effort. His 0.3 bpg are pathetic to be honest.
His athletic abilities have always been overrated. He's much closer to a young Paul Pierce than he is to a young Vince Carter. There is still room for improvement, as he continues to get stronger. That is where most of his overall improvement has come from, not from being an athletic freak.
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:35 PM   #57 (permalink)
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There are 29 opposing coaches and and 400+ opposing players who also like that strategy. I havn't seen to0 many fans suggest that 1 of the 2 undisputed best players on their team should come off the bench. I think even you need to recognize that is a very bold position to take, courageous even.
Dunno dude. James Harden was a pretty outstanding player coming the bench. Jamal crawford was a starter in all rights but did better, JR smith etc. in recetn memory. Been a few good SGs or other coming off the bench and playing 30 minutes. At that's what I was saying... not giving ihm 20 or anything like that.

NBA Sixth Man of the Year Award - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lots of better players than derozan started of the bench and it wasn't because they were not better than their starter. so i don't know that ur right with the 29 coaches hypothesis.

Edit; and if DD is the last one to be traded between him KL and RG, which seems to be only reasonable, then this doesn't hurt but probabaly helps if you want the other 2 to be better to sell high. they can hero ball more.

Last edited by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu; 11-21-2013 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:12 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Then I should be showered with bullshit compliments and caked with excuses for why it's unnecessary to add to my repertoire!
No.... if that were the case then we'd be calling you the Bargs of Raptorforum.

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Old 11-21-2013, 11:42 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Not by accepting pennies on the dollar. He has said he is looking for max value. It would be perfectly acceptable to get a useful player and a high pick next season, and still lose this season for our own pick's sake. I get that possibility. But just getting shit back for a player or players that could be very strong pieces going forward? That makes zero sense for a team that has hinted at big things within two years.

Carp was not talking about the right deal coming along. He was just taking potshots and being ridiculous. We might as well talk about trading Jonas for Schumpert if we can't give Masai enough credit to have a reasonable definition of "blowing it up".
Common misconception.... I do attribute good value to DD in any trade discussion based on his hype. no worries, forgiven.

Shumpert for JV? That's just embellishing, again, we're cool.

I'll try to refrain from DD criticism from here on out. He's just too polarizing of a player and I'm too important a part of RF to part the red sea of raptor nation.

Go raps, and you're welcome!
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:51 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Dunno dude. James Harden was a pretty outstanding player coming the bench. Jamal crawford was a starter in all rights but did better, JR smith etc. in recetn memory. Been a few good SGs or other coming off the bench and playing 30 minutes. At that's what I was saying... not giving ihm 20 or anything like that.

NBA Sixth Man of the Year Award - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lots of better players than derozan started of the bench and it wasn't because they were not better than their starter. so i don't know that ur right with the 29 coaches hypothesis.

Edit; and if DD is the last one to be traded between him KL and RG, which seems to be only reasonable, then this doesn't hurt but probabaly helps if you want the other 2 to be better to sell high. they can hero ball more.
like someone said it before, the reason players like manu or harden came off the bench is because the starting unit already had plenty of scoring and shot creating ability, and they were better suited with the second unit that was lacking that. For us, I'm not sure we have the overabundance, gay and lowry are mostly shot creator for themselves. Not that demar is much of a creator either, but at least gives us more weapons ...
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