TURK IS WORKING!!! - Page 2
Old 01-23-2010, 11:40 AM   #21 (permalink)
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The nature of the booing, the outright jeering, and while the guy is at the line, is pretty brutal. I mean that needs to be reserved for the opposing team. The ACC fans can be idiots. Or rather the idiots in the ACC crowd, take advantage of the quiet points in a game to try to make themselves bigger than the game. It's very Toronto. But it was good to see those same idiots being shouted down vigorously when Turkoglu brought home the goods near the end. I would hope that is the noise that has the most lasting impression on Hedo.
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:08 PM   #22 (permalink)
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The nature of the booing, the outright jeering, and while the guy is at the line, is pretty brutal. I mean that needs to be reserved for the opposing team. The ACC fans can be idiots. Or rather the idiots in the ACC crowd, take advantage of the quiet points in a game to try to make themselves bigger than the game. It's very Toronto. But it was good to see those same idiots being shouted down vigorously when Turkoglu brought home the goods near the end. I would hope that is the noise that has the most lasting impression on Hedo.
Yes they booed Hedo it was really annoying.I hope it will effect Hedo positively
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Old 01-23-2010, 03:52 PM   #23 (permalink)
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He just simply does not fit here:

1- You have 2 dominant PG. (Most of the times (esp at crunch times) these Two PG and a point forward are standing around 3 point line and waiting the ball to initiate the offense. Add Bargnani to them.)

2- You have 2 thin Forward and none at Center (leading non proper PnR's)

3- Triano loves to play at high pace.

4- You have not true shot blocker to cover up his lateral quickness at defense.

5- You have only one player (amir) chasing offensive rebounds and willing to show his presence at opponents perimeter.

6- You have a non-stable coach who changes the rotation/schemes frequently (hedo looked good countless times this season when he was actually handling the ball while Banks was at supporting role . Do whatever you wants to do but do it consistently).

7- You have too many dominant players but not true court/off-court leader. (i.e: if this guy is Bosh, why not showed up after last night and say something about boo's?)

Solution is actually so simple: shine him and then sell him.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:00 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The pg's are hardly dominant to the point where Hedo cannot fit. There's no reason he can't play pick and roll with the guys that are here. There is more than just Amir grabbing offensive boards. The coach actually hasn't adapted his rotations all that much until recently, and Bosh did say something about the boos before, and now this time - Hedo needs to produce and the idiot fans will cheer instead of jeer. Both Bosh and Jack, and probably the whole team, are doing what they can to get his mind where it really needs to be, because that's all it is going to take to fit.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You're giving me seven reasons why the guy doesn't fit this team? Seven reasons?

Guess Hedo's gonna be hard-pressed to find a team period, if seven criteria have to satisfied.

And #2...What is a "non-proper PNR"? If anything running PNR with two bigs that can shoot the ball is more lethal than your prototypical centre.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:23 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Found it at RealGM: (i have no time to write my own, and my broken english wont let me express my knowledge)

"Hedo is used to true center setting massive screens, allowing him to drive left and pull up, continue to the hoop, or hit to Center on a strong cut to the hoop. However, with B&B, the pick and roll is a little less dangerous for defenders: B&B rarely cut hard to the hoop after setting the screen, preferring to pop (as opposed to rolling) out for a jumper or to take his man one-on-one. Hedo is still going left, but with defenders not having to worry about Bosh cutting to the hoop, they can focus on taking away Hedo's drive. This is forcing him to pull up for contested fade aways, or simply kicking it back out and starting it all over again, only with fewer ticks left on the clock."

I wont say give him dwight to be effective. He can be fatal for opponents even with Gortah.

Last edited by Vellassco; 01-23-2010 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:27 PM   #27 (permalink)
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He just simply does not fit here:

1- You have 2 dominant PG. (Most of the times (esp at crunch times) these Two PG and a point forward are standing around 3 point line and waiting the ball to initiate the offense. Add Bargnani to them.)

2- You have 2 thin Forward and none at Center (leading non proper PnR's)

3- Triano loves to play at high pace.

4- You have not true shot blocker to cover up his lateral quickness at defense.

5- You have only one player (amir) chasing offensive rebounds and willing to show his presence at opponents perimeter.

6- You have a non-stable coach who changes the rotation/schemes frequently (hedo looked good countless times this season when he was actually handling the ball while Banks was at supporting role . Do whatever you wants to do but do it consistently).

7- You have too many dominant players but not true court/off-court leader. (i.e: if this guy is Bosh, why not showed up after last night and say something about boo's?)

Solution is actually so simple: shine him and then sell him.


Agreed with number 7, there is no clear leader, Bosh is too soft to be a leader, I think Jack or Hedo should be leader, they're more outspoken.
But as far as Hedo, I think he fits in to this group, it just might take a whole season to find his groove.
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:04 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Did Bosh not show leadership skills when commenting on the boos?
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:14 PM   #29 (permalink)
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First , it was before the game and it looked a motivation speech for Hedo to me. My comment was about criticizing the fans for their attitudes. And it was not about to Hedo wholly. It could be any other team mates.

I'm asking same Q for the coach and GM too, not just for floor leader.
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:59 PM   #30 (permalink)
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whether he does or does not fit within the organization is no excuse to why we haven't seen the effort we did last night on a consistent basis. you guys with those little red flags need to stop coming here with excuses. if he's not out there busting his ass, the fans (as fickle as they are) are in every right to voice their displeasure with his play. honestly, i don't think anyone has been even remotely satisfied with his play or effort this season. all he's looked like so far is a contract player.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:25 PM   #31 (permalink)
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whether he does or does not fit within the organization is no excuse to why we haven't seen the effort we did last night on a consistent basis. you guys with those little red flags need to stop coming here with excuses. if he's not out there busting his ass, the fans (as fickle as they are) are in every right to voice their displeasure with his play. honestly, i don't think anyone has been even remotely satisfied with his play or effort this season. all he's looked like so far is a contract player.
Those little red flags can go hard to him when it comes to its due and most of them already did it earlier. If you look at the truths as excuses its your business. First, give the ball on his hands consistently without giving attention his struggles, let him find his rhythm which he get used to then if he continues to suck, find better way to bash him instead of boo him. It shows how classy Toronto fans to entire NBA. Its a great example for other players who think to come here in near future. If you think fans boo'ed him and took better performance from him in return, you are in big trouble. He busted his ass last nite cuz he wanted to show the market its all about to be used as point forward.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:35 PM   #32 (permalink)
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so he busted his ass to prove a point and he's been showing minimum effort because the ball hasn't been in his hands?

why do you defend him?

you can call out the toronto fans all you want, but you're not making a case. if the effort isn't there on a regular basis, he deserves every single bit of criticism he receives. think otherwise all you want, we all know you're a fan of the player, not the team.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:56 PM   #33 (permalink)
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errmm...

whatever!!!
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:52 PM   #34 (permalink)
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so he busted his ass to prove a point and he's been showing minimum effort because the ball hasn't been in his hands?

why do you defend him?

you can call out the toronto fans all you want, but you're not making a case. if the effort isn't there on a regular basis, he deserves every single bit of criticism he receives. think otherwise all you want, we all know you're a fan of the player, not the team.
You said it yourself, we are those with the little red flag which has a crescent and a star in the middle, not the red filag with a maple leaf. So isnt it self explanatory? You are not gonna get anywhere by accusing us for not being Raps fans. We are here for Hedo, but Hedo plays for Toronto, so that makes us automatically Raps fans. However everything, every concept has its limitations.
You can not or rather should not expect us to be as loyal fans as you .
When you expect us to be loyal to the team, we surely expect you to be loyal to your new player on the team. How fair is it to pick on a guy who has been sub par so far for number of reasons, who is in his first year of his contract, who made a major change in his life style to be in Toronto, has to adjust himself to a whole different style of basketball, and yes, on a team which doesnt have a real leader? If you ask me everybody plays for himself it looks to me like, everybody including Bosh plays for himself and for stats. Then again the situation is not that hopeless. What were you expecting, did you think you were gonna be a contender by giving a 53 million dollar contract to an SF / point forward. You need to spend much more than that if you want to grab some championship hardware. BC's only real goal is to make the play offs. And it looks like maintaining the .500 record, Raps will achieve that. So what is this fuss all about?
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:03 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Who was the real leader on the Magic? I always thought it was Hedo.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:16 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Who was the real leader on the Magic? I always thought it was Hedo.
Funny thing , there is/was same situation there too.

Two close buddies together

Bosh/Jack
Dwight/Meer

Meer was trying to have the job at the back stage, just like Jack in here.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:21 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Dwight definitely wasn't the leader. Nelson got there by the end of the season previous to the last one, but he wasn't there at the end of last season. That team often needed a leader on the floor, and yet Hedo did fine.

He'll be fine here too. He's got plenty of support. You can see that. And him and Jack have both had to adapt. I suspect they can both lead along with Bosh. But he's got to find his legs and get his game to a sustainable level before that makes any sense.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:35 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Dwight definitely wasn't the leader. Nelson got there by the end of the season previous to the last one, but he wasn't there at the end of last season. That team often needed a leader on the floor, and yet Hedo did fine.

He'll be fine here too. He's got plenty of support. You can see that. And him and Jack have both had to adapt. I suspect they can both lead along with Bosh. But he's got to find his legs and get his game to a sustainable level before that makes any sense.
Hedo has never been alpha dog in his life. He can be facilitator on the floor but he is not a true leader. The leadership demands different things and a god given value coming from birth. He is kinda good team guy who always makes j/k's around and wants to be at back stage. He might be beta dog with his veteran identity but thats all.
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Old 01-23-2010, 09:50 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Yeah - well that was what they seemed to need - his veteran presence. That counts for a lot in the leadership column. Orlando always seemed on the verge of a meltdown, and then Hedo would just keep things even keel.
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:12 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Im still concerned about his shot and lift. he's got nothing right now. he's backrimming so many shots because his legs aren't in the shot.

but i love the effort. i love the hustle. but i think that's the extra, not the norm in a more suitable situation. he's here to score and playmake and make shots.
he's not an energy guy. he's brought in to be a game changer and if we're going to rely on his hustle to change games then we're in trouble.
The scoring and playmaking will come if he brings that effort like he did last night.

Last night he stopped caring and just played hard. His horrible shooting and whatnot can probably be directly attributed to his lack of effort.


As for the booing, he got booed immediately after his first missed shot, which is typical of the ACC.

Players don't always just get booed for poor effort, they get booed for all the wrong reasons sometimes at the ACC.

Last edited by bjjs; 01-23-2010 at 10:23 PM.
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