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-   -   Triano vs Casey's approach (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/triano-vs-caseys-approach-21912.html)

bozonic 01-17-2012 09:39 AM

Triano vs Casey's approach
 
Is it my imagination ...Last year looks a lot like this year except Casey frowns on sideline where Jay used to look apopleptic...new coach...focus on defense...Bargnani gets 20 and 5 ... Bayless, Gray, Kleiza hurt ..Jose looks interested again...Rasual Butler pleez, DD shooting guard ,huh

the cards move around the table but results the same... They get a look like a deer in the headlights and they know they can't win in last 5 minutes unless they have 10 pt lead..Up by a few in first quarter then slide by half and down in the fourth

I will give them the benefit of the doubt that short pre season has them struggling with new sets...

Despite injuries last year I thought team was trying most nights. The last few games with the revolving cast I am not sure... the improvement of Il maggo and Jose has been offset by JJ the turnover machine and Mr. Butler and DD///

It certainly looks bleak...besides at least Jay threw in a few Fucks along the way in interviews. Casey sounds like a mortician xD

'trane 01-17-2012 09:47 AM

the one consistent thing is a lack of quality players. there are a couple of decent talents, but no big name, no stars and no difference makers. this is just a simple fact of being early in a rebuild.

other than that i see a completely different game plan and what appears to be a palpable change in focus and accountability.

other than a lack of talent and a corresponding lack of wins, this year's team seems very different than last year's team.

box92 01-17-2012 10:28 AM

Triano- offense and no defense
Casey- defense and no offense

Northern Neighbour 01-17-2012 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'trane (Post 601278)
the one consistent thing is a lack of quality players. there are a couple of decent talents, but no big name, no stars and no difference makers. this is just a simple fact of being early in a rebuild.

other than that i see a completely different game plan and what appears to be a palpable change in focus and accountability.

other than a lack of talent and a corresponding lack of wins, this year's team seems very different than last year's team.

Well said. Another noticeable difference is that this team plays hard and is tough. They're not a soft team like last year. They play defence, they rebound, they block shots, and they give hard fouls. This type of mentality will help the eeam over the long-term.

carp 01-17-2012 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by box1992 (Post 601281)
Triano- offense and no defense
Casey- defense and no offense

Offense takes time to put in, defense, as we've seen, doesn't.

'trane 01-17-2012 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 601286)
Offense takes time to put in, defense, as we've seen, doesn't.

wha?

if that's the case, why didn't we have any effective defense for the entirety of last season? this isn't just an issue of time, it is an issue of focus and a system. thus far, from what i can see, casey has focused almost exclusively on defense in order to set a new tone and establish a culture change within the organization. both take time, it's just a matter of where that time is invested.

carp 01-17-2012 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'trane (Post 601287)
wha?

if that's the case, why didn't we have any effective defense for the entirety of last season? this isn't just an issue of time, it is an issue of focus and a system. thus far, from what i can see, casey has focused almost exclusively on defense in order to set a new tone and establish a culture change within the organization. both take time, it's just a matter of where that time is invested.

Because it also has more to do than just time. I agree it's focus and energy on D, but it also has to be emphasized correctly.... I don't think Triano did that. There was no physicality last year.

As for offence this year, ball movement and learning actual half-court sets and finding roles takes time to work out for guys not used to it... we need to be patient. They're are a lot of clean looks not being made, which would certainly make this offence look much better.

DVS 01-17-2012 11:04 AM

Does Casey not remind you more like KO without the temper?


Personally I know Casey's approach is boring as hell to watch but its what you want in a rebuilding team. If Casey could last 3 years with this team and this hard work approach (and the fans allow it) it will serve the team well

BballWatcher 01-17-2012 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bozonic (Post 601275)
Is it my imagination ...Last year looks a lot like this year except Casey frowns on sideline where Jay used to look apopleptic...new coach...focus on defense...Bargnani gets 20 and 5 ... Bayless, Gray, Kleiza hurt ..Jose looks interested again...Rasual Butler pleez, DD shooting guard ,huh

the cards move around the table but results the same... They get a look like a deer in the headlights and they know they can't win in last 5 minutes unless they have 10 pt lead..Up by a few in first quarter then slide by half and down in the fourth

I disagree. Are you serious? The difference in how this team plays is night and day! Yeah we're losing so you can say that the result is the same, but Casey's influence is massive (we actually compete on the defensive end).

This team plays hard defense now. It was evident from opening night. Last year's team was a team of chuckers that could get lucky on any night because they could get hot from behind the line, but couldn't stop anyone when it counts. They were the quintessential treadmill team.

Casey's system hilights just how limited our current roster is. We play the right way, but we don't have the horses to be a good team, especially right now. We have been decimated by injury this year: Aaron Gray, Bayless is out, Kleiza just came back. Now Bargs is sitting.

Outside of Bargnani, nobody on our team can consistently create his own shot. Weems wasn't amazing but now more than ever we could use his athleticism and friendship with DeRozan.

So far this year, DeRozan has lost confidence and regressed, and Davis is finding his offensive game. Both have a lot to learn and are starting to realize that they aren't as good as they think they are; not in the NBA!

Our big weapon this year was supposed to be our depth - right now we're missing our starting PF (and best player), backup PG and backup C (Gray). We at least competed before Bayless and Bargs went down. The season is long and we will undoubtedly play it safe and rest our injured guys - nobody is rushing to get back; what's the point? I think the Casey system is a big step in the right direction, but it's not one that will or is supposed to give us big gains in the short term. We are, after all, rebuilding. We may also lose Barbosa in a trade before the end of the season.

LX 01-17-2012 12:06 PM

I'd say neither the offense nor defense are put in like the coach wants, and he won't get there with this roster. But there is a slow changing of the culture, which is going to pay off once the roster is better.

StartingBench 01-17-2012 12:10 PM

I prefer Casey's approach. Although not as high scoring, the games are much more enjoyable. We're losing about the same amount, but the game's at least seem winnable. Under Triano it was almost always an automatic loss. I like what I've seen so far from Casey. Our offense is suffering, but I think it's because it's our focus on D. We've jumped from dead last in the league (you could even say all time) in defensive efficiency to 15th in the league. You can't argue with results like that.

I think the offense will come with time, but you can't hate on Casey with results like this after only a month and with a shortened training camp.

FoldedLaundry 01-17-2012 12:55 PM

You gotta appreciate what Casey has done so far. Our stats defensively this year from last have gotten better significantly. The games are a lot closer and tighter, and we play hard. Much harder than last year. One good thing is that we're keeping our opponents below 100 points, which would always happen last year. I agree will all that our offense is terrible right now, but look at the offensive weapons we have right now and how Casey wants to run offense. Seems much different than how Triano envisioned our offense. All in all, the Raptors still frustrate me lol. Great defense but shit offense sometimes -_-, plus we dont have that 3 pt shooter threat yet.

Bargn88 01-17-2012 01:04 PM

Regardless of the 4-10 start, I'm seeing a lot of positives, and here's some proof of it:

-Raptors are first in the league with opponents scoring only 31.9 FG
-Raptors are Second in the league with opponents FG% at 40.8
-Raptors are eigth in the league with opponents scoring an average of 91.9 PPG

The defensive commitment is there, but you have to remember something. This is a filler year, so you can't expect big things with Scrubs like : Rasual Butler, Anthony Carter, and Gary Forbes getting big minutes.

In the Ideal world, we trade or draft a Starting PG, with Calderon an Ideal backup. JV comes next year and plays Center, Andrea at PF, Demar at Guard, and we draft or trade for a SF.

Superjudge 01-17-2012 01:31 PM

meh, I like Casey plenty, but coaches are coaches, players dont listen to them all that much. The only guys that look any different are Bargnani and Amir. The rest..same. Calderon has always busted ass on defence, lets see how long he can this year before he's on the IR.

The Only real hard defence comes from Magloire, and he brought that, nobody coached him to do it. Amir is Stronger, and plays more with his feet so he aint as foul prone... and thats about it.

carp 01-17-2012 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 601340)
meh, I like Casey plenty, but coaches are coaches, players dont listen to them all that much. The only guys that look any different are Bargnani and Amir. The rest..same. Calderon has always busted ass on defence, lets see how long he can this year before he's on the IR.

The Only real hard defence comes from Magloire, and he brought that, nobody coached him to do it. Amir is Stronger, and plays more with his feet so he aint as foul prone... and thats about it.

I think JJ looks quicker and more explosive this year too.....

TORaptor4Ever 01-17-2012 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 601340)
meh, I like Casey plenty, but coaches are coaches, players dont listen to them all that much. The only guys that look any different are Bargnani and Amir. The rest..same. Calderon has always busted ass on defence, lets see how long he can this year before he's on the IR.

The Only real hard defence comes from Magloire, and he brought that, nobody coached him to do it. Amir is Stronger, and plays more with his feet so he aint as foul prone... and thats about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 601342)
I think JJ looks quicker and more explosive this year too.....

Agreed. Although you have to give Casey some credit for his defensive schemes Magloire, Amir and JJ are just "those kind of players". They would have been getting after it regardless no matter who the coach was.

I do think that Casey has probably made an effort to talk to JJ and keep his defensive focus high, rather than becoming a chucker (kind of what happened to Weems). I'll give him credit for that too.

Alex 01-17-2012 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bargn88 (Post 601336)
Regardless of the 4-10 start, I'm seeing a lot of positives, and here's some proof of it:

-Raptors are first in the league with opponents scoring only 31.9 FG
-Raptors are Second in the league with opponents FG% at 40.8
-Raptors are eigth in the league with opponents scoring an average of 91.9 PPG

The defensive commitment is there, but you have to remember something. This is a filler year, so you can't expect big things with Scrubs like : Rasual Butler, Anthony Carter, and Gary Forbes getting big minutes.

In the Ideal world, we trade or draft a Starting PG, with Calderon an Ideal backup. JV comes next year and plays Center, Andrea at PF, Demar at Guard, and we draft or trade for a SF.

How many ppg did the Pistons allow in their championship run?

Bargn88 01-17-2012 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex (Post 601379)
How many ppg did the Pistons allow in their championship run?

94

Dario 01-17-2012 06:49 PM

to be honest, I loved trianos fastbreak, I havent seen much of it with Casey.

carp 01-17-2012 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristTrip (Post 601407)
to be honest, I loved trianos fastbreak, I havent seen much of it with Casey.

Casey has made it known guys won't get the green light to run until they learn the fundamentals of his D.....


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