Treading Our way to the Trade Deadline. Part 2 - Page 9

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View Poll Results: Do you agree with Masai's patience on making trades?
Yes, We need to look for the best trade possible even if it puts us in No mans land 33 58.93%
NO, he is taking way too long to assess the situation, he needs to blow this up now! 10 17.86%
NO! It is obvious we should make trades ASAP to give us a push for the Playoffs! 2 3.57%
I have exams/work to do and don't give a crap. Go with the Flow 11 19.64%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-28-2013, 07:05 PM   #161 (permalink)
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This is based on what? Your mind is tying itself in knots at this point. Are we not in fact simply trying to get better as a team, adding assets and increasing the value of assets while working to increase and improve available options going forward? And do we really have no means of getting a star without a high pick? Really? Everything you offer is all about insisting that there is only one way, only one option, nothing else that can lead to any kind of success. The way the truth and the light, and of course entirely pure bullshit. This is what is so annoying with your side of the argument.
I asked for people to show me what elite talent in specific they would target if they were GM, and how they would acquire them. The answer was vague at best and dodged the question. If you can provide a better one, go ahead.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:12 PM   #162 (permalink)
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I asked for people to show me what elite talent in specific they would target if they were GM, and how they would acquire them. The answer was vague at best and dodged the question. If you can provide a better one, go ahead.
I have zero interest in that. That doesn't mean there are no options and that masai doesn't have a full list of players he has targeted. We are not doing anything - he is, and i believe in masai myself.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:16 PM   #163 (permalink)
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Good work ethic is only going to get you so far. Demar has the most work ethic we've seen on this team in a long time, and while it's nice, he's not going to become a top 20 player in the league because of it.

Do you guys realize this is still largely the core that BC built? The walls he threw up are still here, we need to break them down.

I don't understand how you can call any GM lazy. Do you know how much effort they put into their job? If not then you can't call them lazy, especially because he chose one direction over another. Is Sam Presti lazy? Because he built a better core than 25+ other teams in the league by tanking. If that's lazy then I sure hope Masai is lazy.

Bill Gates once said he prefers a lazy person to do a hard job, because a lazy person will find the easiest way to do it.
Well said.

The issue isn't a top player vs all the other things like a good gm, coach, supporting roster etc. - it's a medley of things. Very rarely has a team won it all without a beast of a player at the helm with Detroit and maybe Dallas as exceptions. The raps each day seem to be losing the chance to gain such a player without giving up assets. Then it's about management. Somebody above said is KoolAid a closet Cavs fan for hoping for a good pick - the Cavs did well to get said picks , they picked wrong as we all know and were mismanaged. They reached with TT and reached with Waiters in their respective spots. They did gain Kyrie though which was nice but how good would they look with Kyrie and JV as their guys going forward? I highly doubt MU would reach with players in that situation or in this draft.

I trust MU but he's at quite the crossroads. I've indicated this before but:

Without KL this team becomes at best an 8th seed and at worst maybe a top 5-7 pick. We're not getting a starting caliber PG back and GV is essentially Jose-lite. Now - if MU extends KL for 7-10 mil he sort of handicaps the team's flexibility and dealing Novak, LF and even Hayes if possible for expirings would be beneficial but which team would do that? MU will not let KL walk for free. Now, if this team is going to get 4th or even 3rd so it can almost guarantee playoff victory in the first round, the squad needs reinforcements - however, as we all know reinforcements usually require the relinquishing of assets - maybe Salmons will be dealt for a player with 2-3 years left on his contract - Thad Young for example - just throwing something out there. The issue is though that gives even less space to reup KL. Lots of important decisions for MU to make. Will be an interesting 1-2 months to come.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:20 PM   #164 (permalink)
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Good work ethic is only going to get you so far. Demar has the most work ethic we've seen on this team in a long time, and while it's nice, he's not going to become a top 20 player in the league because of it.

Do you guys realize this is still largely the core that BC built? The walls he threw up are still here, we need to break them down.
What do you think Masai has been doing? Gay and Bargs... the 2 biggest pieces of the BC era are gone now.. all in less than 1 year. Lowry will likely be gone by the deadline.

How much faster do you want him to go?

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I don't understand how you can call any GM lazy. Do you know how much effort they put into their job? If not then you can't call them lazy, especially because he chose one direction over another. Is Sam Presti lazy? Because he built a better core than 25+ other teams in the league by tanking. If that's lazy then I sure hope Masai is lazy.

Bill Gates once said he prefers a lazy person to do a hard job, because a lazy person will find the easiest way to do it.
Sam Presti is an example of a guy who got insanely lucky having Durant fall to him when POR passed on him. Then he made some good picks in Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka. Good for him. In all these years it's amounted to one finals appearance.

What about a team like the Cavs who have had high picks year after year? Did tanking work for them?
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Old 12-28-2013, 08:05 PM   #165 (permalink)
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Tank is almost impossible.
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Old 12-28-2013, 08:07 PM   #166 (permalink)
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What do you think Masai has been doing? Gay and Bargs... the 2 biggest pieces of the BC era are gone now.. all in less than 1 year. Lowry will likely be gone by the deadline.

How much faster do you want him to go?



Sam Presti is an example of a guy who got insanely lucky having Durant fall to him when POR passed on him. Then he made some good picks in Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka. Good for him. In all these years it's amounted to one finals appearance.

What about a team like the Cavs who have had high picks year after year? Did tanking work for them?
That Cavs example is BS and we both know it. They reached in almost every draft and if they hadn't their core would be Kyrie/JV/Barnes/Oladipo. That would be a core way better than most of the league.

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Old 12-28-2013, 08:09 PM   #167 (permalink)
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I have zero interest in that. That doesn't mean there are no options and that masai doesn't have a full list of players he has targeted. We are not doing anything - he is, and i believe in masai myself.


So basically, you don't know and want to dodge the question?

Last edited by KoolAid; 12-28-2013 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 12-28-2013, 08:13 PM   #168 (permalink)
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That Cavs example is BS and we both know it. They reached in almost every draft and if they hadn't their core would be Kyrie/JV/Barnes/Oladipo. That would be a core way better than most of the league.
+1

This. Kyrie/Oladipo/Barnes/AndyV/JV :jack:
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Old 12-28-2013, 08:29 PM   #169 (permalink)
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That Cavs example is BS and we both know it. They reached in almost every draft and if they hadn't their core would be Kyrie/JV/Barnes/Oladipo. That would be a core way better than most of the league.
So the Cavs example is B.S because they drafted poorly with their high picks but the OKC example is bang on even though they were VERY fortunate with theirs?

ok.

Do you not understand that the depth that we got from SAC in the Gay trade actually strengthened our team? I don't know why you seem to think that our team is Lowry and that if he's traded we'll magically lose dozens of games. Yes, Lowry is playing very well... but he's just one guy. And what we've seen over the last few weeks has been a total TEAM effort.

Unless Masai absolutely guts the team we're not going to be bad enough to secure that high pick. And contrary to what you believe that does NOT spell the end of the world as we know it.
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Old 12-28-2013, 09:18 PM   #170 (permalink)
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So the Cavs example is B.S because they drafted poorly with their high picks but the OKC example is bang on even though they were VERY fortunate with theirs?

ok.
Yes, actually. Everybody knew that those Cavs picks were bad the instant they made them. OKC was not fortunate, they got high draft picks in good drafts, good things are bound to happen.
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Do you not understand that the depth that we got from SAC in the Gay trade actually strengthened our team? I don't know why you seem to think that our team is Lowry and that if he's traded we'll magically lose dozens of games. Yes, Lowry is playing very well... but he's just one guy. And what we've seen over the last few weeks has been a total TEAM effort.

Unless Masai absolutely guts the team we're not going to be bad enough to secure that high pick. And contrary to what you believe that does NOT spell the end of the world as we know it.
Lowry is the engine that moves the wheels of this team. He's the primary ball handler, one of our main scorers. If you think this team will continue as it is without him you're sorely mistaken. Without Lowry this team is an 8th seed. If Masai deals him and Amir it will be among the worst in the league.
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Old 12-28-2013, 09:42 PM   #171 (permalink)
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Yes, actually. Everybody knew that those Cavs picks were bad the instant they made them. OKC was not fortunate, they got high draft picks in good drafts, good things are bound to happen.

So they were lucky then. Gotcha.

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Lowry is the engine that moves the wheels of this team. He's the primary ball handler, one of our main scorers. If you think this team will continue as it is without him you're sorely mistaken. Without Lowry this team is an 8th seed. If Masai deals him and Amir it will be among the worst in the league.
I assume that you meant WITH Lowry this team is an 8th seed.... Based on what you've seen over the last 2 weeks you really think so lol? Because I could easily see us winning the Atlantic, and thus securing the 4th seed.

Without Lowry and Amir our team will definitely take a hit but again... the guys that we got from SAC would step forward and play more minutes. Based on what we've seen from Salmons and Patterson I don't think that'd be such a bad thing. Vasquez definitely has to step his game up though. No question about that.

Still not bad enough to be one of the worst in the league. Sorry.
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Old 12-28-2013, 09:46 PM   #172 (permalink)
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So they were lucky then. Gotcha.



I assume that you meant WITH Lowry this team is an 8th seed.... Based on what you've seen over the last 2 weeks you really think so lol? Because I could easily see us winning the Atlantic, and thus securing the 4th seed.

Without Lowry and Amir our team will definitely take a hit but again... the guys that we got from SAC would step forward and play more minutes. Based on what we've seen from Salmons and Patterson I don't think that'd be such a bad thing. Vasquez definitely has to step his game up though. No question about that.

Still not bad enough to be one of the worst in the league. Sorry.
Agree with this. Just wondering about every person's opinion on the forum about possibly resigning Lowry or trading him. Which one would you choose if lets say we could resign Lowry to around the same money that DD is making. If that were the case would you rather trade him or keep him?
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Old 12-28-2013, 09:55 PM   #173 (permalink)
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Agree with this. Just wondering about every person's opinion on the forum about possibly resigning Lowry or trading him. Which one would you choose if lets say we could resign Lowry to around the same money that DD is making. If that were the case would you rather trade him or keep him?
Lowry @ $9M/yr would be well worth it IMO.

Unfortunately I could see him commanding more if he continues to play like this.
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Old 12-28-2013, 10:44 PM   #174 (permalink)
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So basically, you don't know and want to dodge the question?
Yeah - basically. You don't even have to try to be annoying do you? I meant what I said. I have zero interest. Have you seen me in the trade suggestions thread? Ever? Do you see me playing fantasy leagues? Ever? I'm not into pretending to be a gm, and I'm more than happy to see a real gm here with a real sense of drawing up a blueprint.

Btw - you're suggestion that there is no other option is bullshit not only because moves can be made, and players acquired through free agency, but also in the draft. Yes, stars do get drafted later than fifth, later than tenth, later than thirtieth. For you to insist otherwise is profoundly revealing. You do recall Masai saying he was watching a lot of college games right? That is the work that is needed to find those stars later in drafts.

There is also internal growth. And you will mock that. But it happens. Players can and do develop later. Good gms can get a sense of that possibility. Dallas was wrong about Nash and Phoenix was right in what they saw. Detroit was smart in seeing the potential in Billups. You might want to put a ceiling on a Ross or Valanciunas, but that's just dumb, other than it suits your obsessive need to buy into nothing but draft hype. It was you that said Demar has regressed right? That's just profoundly revealing man. Profoundly. But no worries - roll your eyes and accuse me of dodging your meaningless question that would presume either you or I were at all qualified to take on such a task. Granted any of us could possibly pull off pretending to be a gm and trying to lose so that very little work will need to be done to make a pick.

If that's what Masai amounts to then I will probably be looking for another team to root for soon enough. I believe that's not the case though. I feel pretty confident that he can lay a foundation, put up some studs, and start looking for just what kind of distinctive design elements he would like to bring it all together. All at once.
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Old 12-28-2013, 10:48 PM   #175 (permalink)
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oh - and I asked a whole lot of legitimate questions myself - of which you never even acknowledged seeing them. funny that.
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Old 12-28-2013, 10:56 PM   #176 (permalink)
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Lowry @ $9M/yr would be well worth it IMO.

Unfortunately I could see him commanding more if he continues to play like this.
I would have no issue paying him $9M/yr, but I agree with you in that he probably will command more provided he keeps his play up. Looking back on it if we had to offer him an extension through the mid way point of his first season he probably would have been more inclined to take it as he was struggling, though I know there was little chance of this because no team wants to extend a struggling player. I just think we possibly could have gotten him at a bargain price then. Anyway, will see how the season plays out.
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:06 PM   #177 (permalink)
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I would have no issue paying him $9M/yr, but I agree with you in that he probably will command more provided he keeps his play up. Looking back on it if we had to offer him an extension through the mid way point of his first season he probably would have been more inclined to take it as he was struggling, though I know there was little chance of this because no team wants to extend a struggling player. I just think we possibly could have gotten him at a bargain price then. Anyway, will see how the season plays out.
Perhaps.... but who knows if he'd have wanted to stick around.

It's entirely possible that he's just busting his ass right now because he's auditioning for other teams while in a contract year. He wouldn't be the first player to do that. For what it's worth though I'll give Kyle the benefit of the doubt and say that it's more than that.
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:09 PM   #178 (permalink)
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Perhaps.... but who knows if he'd have wanted to stick around.

It's entirely possible that he's just busting his ass right now because he's auditioning for other teams while in a contract year. He wouldn't be the first player to do that. For what it's worth though I'll give Kyle the benefit of the doubt and say that it's more than that.
that's ultimately Masai's call, and it has to begin with his relationship with Kyle.
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:42 PM   #179 (permalink)
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that's ultimately Masai's call, and it has to begin with his relationship with Kyle.
Kyle's looking for bucks yes, but he want's mutual respect between team and player. He didn't get it in Memphis or Houston, and that could be Masai's trump card. I think Masai is a straight shooter, and if Kyle feels that way also, he could likely re-sign in FA. I'm hoping.
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:48 PM   #180 (permalink)
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Kyle's looking for bucks yes, but he want's mutual respect between team and player. He didn't get it in Memphis or Houston, and that could be Masai's trump card. I think Masai is a straight shooter, and if Kyle feels that way also, he could likely re-sign in FA. I'm hoping.
Decent point. I guess we'll see.
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