Treading Our way to the Trade Deadline. Part 2 - Page 8

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View Poll Results: Do you agree with Masai's patience on making trades?
Yes, We need to look for the best trade possible even if it puts us in No mans land 33 58.93%
NO, he is taking way too long to assess the situation, he needs to blow this up now! 10 17.86%
NO! It is obvious we should make trades ASAP to give us a push for the Playoffs! 2 3.57%
I have exams/work to do and don't give a crap. Go with the Flow 11 19.64%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-28-2013, 11:47 AM   #141 (permalink)
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ITS TIME TO TANK PEOPLE..
The TIME part of this makes me laugh. You are so late with this post. Too late... DUCY?
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:16 PM   #142 (permalink)
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none of those players are 1st tier, very good players but not top 10. George is the only one that qualifies and he's a bit of a special case because had he not grow 2 inches after he got drafted, he would be nowhere near as good. Tony Parker is borderline and he is another very special case that is unlikely to ever happen again he was drafted just before the international players started to get some recognition and was still possible to find late gems.

We don't need (just) a very good player, we need an elite player to anchor the team. Without it, we'll be limited to a 2nd tier team, regardless of how well MU runs the team or the quality of the coach or the culture or whatever.
So culture, GM'ing and coaching don't matter eh?.... only elite talent?

Care to explain why the Cavs and Nets suck so bad then? Why WAS and DET are still under .500 in the East? Why MIN, SAC and MEM are outside of a playoff spot right now looking in?

This isn't NBA2K14. There's much more that goes into building a successful team than JUST getting 1 talented player.
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:22 PM   #143 (permalink)
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So culture, GM'ing and coaching don't matter eh?.... only elite talent?

Care to explain why the Cavs and Nets suck so bad then? Why WAS and DET are still under .500 in the East? Why MIN, SAC and MEM are outside of a playoff spot right now looking in?

This isn't NBA2K14. There's much more that goes into building a successful team than JUST getting 1 talented player.
He's not saying it's the only thing that matters but it's a pretty important thing to have on a team. Besides maybe Detroit or maybe maybe maybe Dallas there've been few examples of a championship squad without 1-2 elite talents.
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Old 12-28-2013, 02:12 PM   #144 (permalink)
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So culture, GM'ing and coaching don't matter eh?.... only elite talent?

Care to explain why the Cavs and Nets suck so bad then? Why WAS and DET are still under .500 in the East? Why MIN, SAC and MEM are outside of a playoff spot right now looking in?

This isn't NBA2K14. There's much more that goes into building a successful team than JUST getting 1 talented player.
Seriously dude, stop replying to posts you don't read. Shitty ingredients and a great chef or shitty chef and great ingredients can yield a good meal, but to get the BEST meal you need both. The problem with the league is money can buy you a great chef, but the best ingredients not ...
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Old 12-28-2013, 02:13 PM   #145 (permalink)
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He's not saying it's the only thing that matters but it's a pretty important thing to have on a team. Besides maybe Detroit or maybe maybe maybe Dallas there've been few examples of a championship squad without 1-2 elite talents.
There have been NO examples of a team absent a winning culture, a good coach and a solid GM winning a title.

Yes, elite talent helps to be sure but it doesn't do anything but sell tickets in the long run. Remember Jordan's first 7 years in CHI?

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Seriously dude, stop replying to posts you don't read. Shitty ingredients and a great chef or shitty chef and great ingredients can yield a good meal, but to get the BEST meal you need both. The problem with the league is money can buy you a great chef, but the best ingredients not ...
If I didn't read your post why would I bother replying to it? Don't get upset because I point out a silly statement. Do you have any reason to believe that Ujiri CAN'T build a strong team without a top 5 pick in this draft? I'd sure love to hear it....

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Old 12-28-2013, 03:04 PM   #146 (permalink)
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Do you have any reason to believe that Ujiri CAN'T build a strong team without a top 5 pick in this draft? I'd sure love to hear it....
I think the point is that it's going to be a lot harder to do, and will take us longer to become a contender if we miss out on the draft again this season and go forward with what we have, which is limited assets and a below average core. It's not worth sacrificing our future for a fools gold 3 seed when we'll end up losing Lowry for nothing in the off season and have little wiggle room to improve on the roster.
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Old 12-28-2013, 04:06 PM   #147 (permalink)
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I think the point is that it's going to be a lot harder to do, and will take us longer to become a contender if we miss out on the draft again this season and go forward with what we have, which is limited assets and a below average core. It's not worth sacrificing our future for a fools gold 3 seed when we'll end up losing Lowry for nothing in the off season and have little wiggle room to improve on the roster.
so we'll make the second round?
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Old 12-28-2013, 04:22 PM   #148 (permalink)
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I think the point is that it's going to be a lot harder to do, and will take us longer to become a contender if we miss out on the draft again this season and go forward with what we have, which is limited assets and a below average core. It's not worth sacrificing our future for a fools gold 3 seed when we'll end up losing Lowry for nothing in the off season and have little wiggle room to improve on the roster.
....and we will miss out the draft. There is no way we land a top 5 pick based on our standing. The only thing I can see is MU being very active on draft night trying to package assets in a blockbuster deal.
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Old 12-28-2013, 04:30 PM   #149 (permalink)
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so we'll make the second round?
No, probably not. I can see the same scenario playing out as the one where we played the Nets, 3 seed v 6 seed, in that the team with the better core talent won out. I dont think we beat a healthy WAS or DET team in the playoffs, if it were to ever come to that. Is winning a round in a terrible conference vs a bad team and then getting demolished by IND/MIA a successful season if we're limited with assets afterward, and coming back with the same range of talent the next season vs an improved and healthier east?

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....and we will miss out the draft. There is no way we land a top 5 pick based on our standing. The only thing I can see is MU being very active on draft night trying to package assets in a blockbuster deal.
Again, we dont have the assets to trade into a top 5 or 10 spot, not including Val, which is something that will not and should not be done. Teams arent going to be willing to deal their top 5 or top 7-10 picks for Derozan and a mid round pick IMO.
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Old 12-28-2013, 04:57 PM   #150 (permalink)
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I think the point is that it's going to be a lot harder to do, and will take us longer to become a contender if we miss out on the draft again this season and go forward with what we have, which is limited assets and a below average core. It's not worth sacrificing our future for a fools gold 3 seed when we'll end up losing Lowry for nothing in the off season and have little wiggle room to improve on the roster.
How do you know these things? The trade deadline is still a month away (or thereabouts) and it's entirely possible that Ujiri is waiting for other teams to become desperate and sweeten their trade deals (which to this point have been unappealing).

Should he just deal Lowry for a big of balls and a Bargs bobblehead? Just so we can lose more games? Or should he wait to find the BEST possible deal for him?
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:16 PM   #151 (permalink)
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There have been NO examples of a team absent a winning culture, a good coach and a solid GM winning a title.

Yes, elite talent helps to be sure but it doesn't do anything but sell tickets in the long run. Remember Jordan's first 7 years in CHI?



If I didn't read your post why would I bother replying to it? Don't get upset because I point out a silly statement. Do you have any reason to believe that Ujiri CAN'T build a strong team without a top 5 pick in this draft? I'd sure love to hear it....
And then he got another, slightly less elite talent to aid him and a strong supporting cast.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:42 PM   #152 (permalink)
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If you have an empty lot and want to make a building, what are you going to do? Make a blueprint and lay some foundation, or put up some walls right away? Because what we're doing right now is building around a star we don't have and have no means to get without a high pick.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:07 PM   #153 (permalink)
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And then he got another, slightly less elite talent to aid him and a strong supporting cast.
Along with the best coach in NBA history... who convinced him to change the way that he played the game... and a GM who brought in that strong supporting cast.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:14 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Along with the best coach in NBA history... who convinced him to change the way that he played the game... and a GM who brought in that strong supporting cast.
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If you have an empty lot and want to make a building, what are you going to do? Make a blueprint and lay some foundation, or put up some walls right away? Because what we're doing right now is building around a star we don't have and have no means to get without a high pick.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:22 PM   #155 (permalink)
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No, probably not. I can see the same scenario playing out as the one where we played the Nets, 3 seed v 6 seed, in that the team with the better core talent won out. I dont think we beat a healthy WAS or DET team in the playoffs, if it were to ever come to that. Is winning a round in a terrible conference vs a bad team and then getting demolished by IND/MIA a successful season if we're limited with assets afterward, and coming back with the same range of talent the next season vs an improved and healthier east?



Again, we dont have the assets to trade into a top 5 or 10 spot, not including Val, which is something that will not and should not be done. Teams arent going to be willing to deal their top 5 or top 7-10 picks for Derozan and a mid round pick IMO.
knowing our luck pretty much, but we'll see how it goes, we have been really consistent against good teams this year so far.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:25 PM   #156 (permalink)
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If you have an empty lot and want to make a building, what are you going to do? Make a blueprint and lay some foundation, or put up some walls right away? Because what we're doing right now is building around a star we don't have and have no means to get without a high pick.
This is based on what? Your mind is tying itself in knots at this point. Are we not in fact simply trying to get better as a team, adding assets and increasing the value of assets while working to increase and improve available options going forward? And do we really have no means of getting a star without a high pick? Really? Everything you offer is all about insisting that there is only one way, only one option, nothing else that can lead to any kind of success. The way the truth and the light, and of course entirely pure bullshit. This is what is so annoying with your side of the argument.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:28 PM   #157 (permalink)
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If you have an empty lot and want to make a building, what are you going to do? Make a blueprint and lay some foundation, or put up some walls right away? Because what we're doing right now is building around a star we don't have and have no means to get without a high pick.
I don't buy that analogy. In fact, I think you've got it backwards. Establishing a winning culture and a strong-minded team based on good work ethic should be the "blueprint" and "foundation".... which is what Masai has been doing.

"Throwing up walls right away" was what BC was a master of (Gay, Bargs, Hedo, etc).

Masai =/= BC.... this is what you have to understand. As LX alluded to earlier in another thread... lazy, unimaginative GMs rely on high picks to improve their teams. GOOD GMs have a lot more tools at their disposal.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:31 PM   #158 (permalink)
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If you have an empty lot and want to make a building, what are you going to do? Make a blueprint and lay some foundation, or put up some walls right away? Because what we're doing right now is building around a star we don't have and have no means to get without a high pick.
That's nonsense. Masai has a blueprint and is laying down the foundation. You're the one with the twisted sense of how to construct a team. You must be a closet Knick fan, or a Kings fan or a Cav's fan.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:44 PM   #159 (permalink)
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That's nonsense. Masai has a blueprint and is laying down the foundation. You're the one with the twisted sense of how to construct a team. You must be a closet Knick fan, or a Kings fan or a Cav's fan.
no, hes koolaid bro
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Old 12-28-2013, 08:02 PM   #160 (permalink)
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I don't buy that analogy. In fact, I think you've got it backwards. Establishing a winning culture and a strong-minded team based on good work ethic should be the "blueprint" and "foundation".... which is what Masai has been doing.

"Throwing up walls right away" was what BC was a master of (Gay, Bargs, Hedo, etc).

Masai =/= BC.... this is what you have to understand. As LX alluded to earlier in another thread... lazy, unimaginative GMs rely on high picks to improve their teams. GOOD GMs have a lot more tools at their disposal.
Good work ethic is only going to get you so far. Demar has the most work ethic we've seen on this team in a long time, and while it's nice, he's not going to become a top 20 player in the league because of it.

Do you guys realize this is still largely the core that BC built? The walls he threw up are still here, we need to break them down.

I don't understand how you can call any GM lazy. Do you know how much effort they put into their job? If not then you can't call them lazy, especially because he chose one direction over another. Is Sam Presti lazy? Because he built a better core than 25+ other teams in the league by tanking. If that's lazy then I sure hope Masai is lazy.

Bill Gates once said he prefers a lazy person to do a hard job, because a lazy person will find the easiest way to do it.
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